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Deer hunting coming to an end. #5491303 12/21/14 11:24 PM
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Anyone believe that the cost of leases and land availability is bringing hunting to an end? I am starting to think we are the last generation of deer hunters. And like in Europe hunting will be a sport only available to the rich.



Originally Posted By: SnakeWrangler
never trust a man that rents pigs....
Re: Deer hunting coming to an end. [Re: Koenig] #5491420 12/22/14 12:04 AM
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I think it will be a while. So many people own land or have family that owns land. But I could see one day where everything is package hunts where deer are raised like livestock and you just come out for a weekend and harvest your animals.


Re: Deer hunting coming to an end. [Re: Koenig] #5491884 12/22/14 03:19 AM
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Maybe in Texas but most other states have a lot of public land. I know it can't support all hunters but it will keep opportunities available to everyone.

I don't know if there is another state that has less public land (percentage wise) than TX

Re: Deer hunting coming to an end. [Re: Koenig] #5492974 12/22/14 06:33 PM
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Yep, lack of public land is an issue because more and more land is worth more to people for recreational purposes than for farming or ranching, and that type of owner has no interest in leasing the land because he doesn't need the money.


Re: Deer hunting coming to an end. [Re: Koenig] #5493089 12/22/14 07:21 PM
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No

Re: Deer hunting coming to an end. [Re: Koenig] #5493150 12/22/14 07:44 PM
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Hunting is slowly becoming a rich mans sport. I think 10-15 years down the road or so it will mostly be high fenced hunting on game ranches.

However, with all the budget rifles out today, people can still get into the sport at a somewhat affordable price. Being in Texas it is much easier to get into hunting; nice people, easier to find used equipment, more places to hunt. However, in other states like in the north east, hunting is almost gone for good.

Its more important to get youngsters out and show them the joys of hunting, they will be able to keep the sport alive.

Last edited by Gone to Texas; 12/22/14 07:44 PM.
Re: Deer hunting coming to an end. [Re: Koenig] #5493202 12/22/14 08:08 PM
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No


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Re: Deer hunting coming to an end. [Re: Koenig] #5493206 12/22/14 08:09 PM
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Hunting has certainly gone up in price. its gone from something that cost only the bullet you fired and was done for meat only...to something that has evolved nearly 100% into a recreational activity. I mean I know a great many people still consume the meat, some to a high degree. but there are few to no people out there who are subsistence hunting still. I think most people could still get their meat at the store for less than it cost them to hunt it.

that being the case....name anything else that hasn't gone up wildly in price over say the last 25yrs....

gas is triple cost, land is triple cost, corn is triple cost, ammo is triple the cost....so is just about anything else you buy hunting related or not.

it sucks to see it cost what it does. but I don't think its because the sport itself is being handed to the rich. truthfully...I think I see more people owning guns and looking for hunting opportunities today than I ever have before. I think there's more folks wanting to do it. of course not everyone is going to be able to own their own land....that's always been a rich mans game. and as there's more demand for leases...then price goes up with demand.

I see no problem with package hunting. sure its not as preferred as a season long lease. but look how many more interested hunters can be served that way instead of leasing the entire place to a small handful of folks for the whole year. plus....package hunt places are usually well managed....it serves a lot of hunters and not at the detriment of the wildlife.

there's plenty of smaller leases or day leases out there where people kill everything alive for the sake of a dollar....wildlife is destroyed.


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Re: Deer hunting coming to an end. [Re: Koenig] #5493211 12/22/14 08:12 PM
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I tell you what I do see these days that's disappointing....

is a whole bunch of folks who know nothing about firearms or gun safety, or hunting, or land stewardship...because nobody took the time to teach them....and now they own a bunch of machine guns and want to go shoot the hell out of whatever they can find. it scares the heck outa me to visit the rifle range anymore these days.

you don't see many folks who know how to go about hunting.


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Re: Deer hunting coming to an end. [Re: Koenig] #5493225 12/22/14 08:16 PM
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The early days of hunting after WW2 most of the country was rural folks, and over the years cities have grown tremendously and people moved to the cities and what began is urban sprawl.
Just twenty years ago I hunted an area north of SA that was all hills and rocks and trees, and now it's all concrete, homes and a Walmart where I used to hunt.
Yes it's going to end because we are running out of land to hunt, and the land that is left that doesn't have a shopping mall or oil well rig is going to go for premium price of even more than it is now.
The outlook is grim and there is no turning back!

Last edited by Jimbo; 12/22/14 08:18 PM.


Thursday at 12:45 PM
#33
Once i learned that i didn't "NEED" to kill something, and that if i did kill something all the fun stopped and work began, i was a much better hunter.
Re: Deer hunting coming to an end. [Re: Koenig] #5493256 12/22/14 08:24 PM
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hunting in the hill country area that's anywhere close to a city is going to go away. eventually the land will just all develop. anywhere near a metroplex.

you've got expanses of land though north/west/south though that won't develop....or not anytime soon.

the days of living in town and driving 20-30min or less to hunt will go away. already have to a large extent unless you just happen to know someone who owns a small pocket yet. where there's rural land though, there will be hunting. demand in the absence of availability though drives up cost.


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Re: Deer hunting coming to an end. [Re: Koenig] #5493380 12/22/14 09:37 PM
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Hunting has evolved into management of the deer, in turn all one has to say is this land has been under management for the last X amount of years and the price goes up which it should because management isn't cheap. The price is always higher where bigger deer are known to have been taken. With all the management practices over the past years people are growing bigger deer making unknown area's more expensive. That's how I look at it, I don't think we'll see Europe hunting prices in the states. The gun laws are what make it so expensive to acquire a hunt in Europe. Just keep voting and buying guns, become a NRA member if you aren't already.

Re: Deer hunting coming to an end. [Re: Koenig] #5494847 12/23/14 02:51 PM
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you almost have to be some sort of management minded though....it helps preserve the resource and helps you make the most out of the place you have to hunt. its amazing how much more productive a piece of property can be for hunting under good management.

a hunter who all he does is start feeding a week or two before the season...kills his buck/bucks...and then stops all activities on the property....no judgement just making an example....what has he done? besides distort the deer ratio. how many people can really do this on a piece of property before it ends up being pretty shot up....

now deer manage the same place...you've got a number of bucks to shoot...a number of does to shoot...lots of folks could have the opportunity to harvest one or several deer. they may not all be bucks....but its hunting and they are good deer. and at the end of the season...the property and deer herd is in better shape than you found it.

the days of trecking out to some remote wilderness where nobody else hunts and shooting a wallhanger and going back home are sorta gone. I mean there's places you can do this I suppose...but they are difficult or costly destinations and not open to many folks. most are working with a lease, or a smaller piece of property that they share...maybe just a few hundred acres...maybe less. you find a way to make the most out of what you have. management does that. good management and a HF offers a person with 200ac a similar hunting opportunity as someone with 2000ac. allows them to accomplish management goals that the neighboring properties may not have otherwise allowed them to.

there's plenty folks out there who talk about deer mgt and don't know or understand what it all means. but in its simplest form...its preserving/enhancing a resource so that your hunting experience only gets better as time goes on.

instead of filling all ur buck tags and wondering if you'll see any bucks next year....practice some management and know that you'll see bucks next year and they'll be bigger than the ones you saw before.


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Re: Deer hunting coming to an end. [Re: Koenig] #5494966 12/23/14 03:31 PM
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This discussion is very timely. My FIL and I hunt about 5 minutes outside of Gruene. A very large ranch next to his 200 acres just sold. It's going to be turned into a 1500 home subdivision with a new HWY running from 46 to Hueco springs loop. My old fishing area on the Guadalupe just sold, gonna' build 18, million dollar mansions on 5 acres next to the river. I used to find arrowheads and pottery sherds there. It was a native American campsite. They scraped the dirt and hauled off all the topsoil. Very sad. Such is 'progress', I guess.


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Don't text and drive.
Re: Deer hunting coming to an end. [Re: Koenig] #5495003 12/23/14 03:47 PM
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Not in my lifetime, but yes, it will eventually be a hobby that only a select few can participate in. I am paying 6 grand now to hunt a lease and would pay more for a better lease. If you told me 10 years ago a lease to kill deer would cost 6 grand plus, I would have probably gave up hunting then before it was too late! BTW, there is always Mexico, lots of land down there to hunt if your willing; some real big deer too.


How come everybody I meet is a deer hunting expert?
Re: Deer hunting coming to an end. [Re: Koenig] #5495036 12/23/14 04:03 PM
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More doom and gloom from the THF

Lets talk about al the hunting opportunities that have opened up over the past 20 years


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Deer hunting coming to an end. [Re: txtrophy85] #5495205 12/23/14 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
More doom and gloom from the THF

Lets talk about al the hunting opportunities that have opened up over the past 20 years

I'm with you. Go for it! I would love to hear some examples of how this great pastime is getting better and being made more available to the average, everyday blue collared hunter.


How come everybody I meet is a deer hunting expert?
Re: Deer hunting coming to an end. [Re: tShawnB] #5495254 12/23/14 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
More doom and gloom from the THF

Lets talk about al the hunting opportunities that have opened up over the past 20 years

Originally Posted By: tShawnB
Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
More doom and gloom from the THF

Lets talk about al the hunting opportunities that have opened up over the past 20 years

I'm with you. Go for it! I would love to hear some examples of how this great pastime is getting better and being made more available to the average, everyday blue collared hunter.


Amen to that! Why all the doom and gloom, its Christmas!

We have more deer in more counties than ever before...we have hunting in places that had no deer 20 years ago or very few deer...looks at Fannin, Navarro, Ellis and Collin as examples...we also have good numbers in the traditional strong areas of the state and with the AR's in place we are slowly getting a more balanced deer herd. Deer hunting has/is/and will be a sport/hobby that commands both time and money...its just a fact. I am a average joe(work for a city electric co.) and have been able to purchase a small amoutn of acreage...it all depends on priorities and how you want to spend your money...

Re: Deer hunting coming to an end. [Re: txtrophy85] #5497168 12/24/14 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
More doom and gloom from the THF

Lets talk about al the hunting opportunities that have opened up over the past 20 years



Amen to that. its not as bad as folks want to make it seem. sure there's leases to be had for 6000...there's leases to be had for 50,000....you can also go to a lot of decent ranches and shoot hogs/spikes/does for $150

true blue trophy hunting costs money. they charge that much for those deer because it costs that much to grow a deer like that with some sort of reliability. not all hunting is trophy hunting and not all hunting costs that much.


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Re: Deer hunting coming to an end. [Re: Koenig] #5497179 12/24/14 03:22 PM
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we hunt our own ranch now.....but prior to that I would frequently find doe/spike hunts on well managed ranches for $150-$200 a deer.

sure its not a wallhanger....but its good meat....and its a really neat hunt. ride out to a 5000ac ranch...see a LOT OF DEER, see some really nice deer that just aren't on the menu. sit in a really nice blind. and harvest a solid, well-fed deer.

I'm not rich, and Im not friends with anyone who is rich. I just found them in the paper. they're not a dime a dozen....but if you want to find them...they are there. and once you've found a place you like...tell the folks that you enjoyed it and want to come back next year. they'll pencil you in first.

we had a great arrangement with a guy who had 1300ac in Brackettville. was a great ranch. also another 1000ish ac down south....the first guy was $150ea for a doe/spike as many of them as you wanted or had tags for.

the other guy was $200/ea for a doe or spike, all the hogs you wanted for free as long as you were also paying to deer hunt. he even let you stay in his hunters cabin.

I didn't know either of these folks from adam. just found them in the newspaper, called them up and scheduled a hunt. showed them that I'd respect the rules and the property and let them know I appreciated it. they welcome you back with open arms. many times if they raised the price of the game...they'd leave my price the same.

its out there.


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Re: Deer hunting coming to an end. [Re: Erathkid] #5497195 12/24/14 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted By: Erathkid
This discussion is very timely. My FIL and I hunt about 5 minutes outside of Gruene. A very large ranch next to his 200 acres just sold. It's going to be turned into a 1500 home subdivision with a new HWY running from 46 to Hueco springs loop. My old fishing area on the Guadalupe just sold, gonna' build 18, million dollar mansions on 5 acres next to the river. I used to find arrowheads and pottery sherds there. It was a native American campsite. They scraped the dirt and hauled off all the topsoil. Very sad. Such is 'progress', I guess.


This wasn't the phieffer ranch was it?

If the place was for sale, then anyone had a chance to buy it. If the owners didn't want to see it turnd into a subdivision then they could have put it under conservation easement and got about 40% of the value back out of it.

It's sad to see I love that area but new braunfels is blowing up.

If people don't like urban sprawl then they need to stop having kids. Pretty easy concept.


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Deer hunting coming to an end. [Re: tShawnB] #5497201 12/24/14 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: tShawnB
Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
More doom and gloom from the THF

Lets talk about al the hunting opportunities that have opened up over the past 20 years

I'm with you. Go for it! I would love to hear some examples of how this great pastime is getting better and being made more available to the average, everyday blue collared hunter.


Well, for one there are more deer now than in our grandfathers time by a wide margin. Ranches that would never have a guest step foot on them are available for access either thru leases or package hunts.

Management and herd quality is better across the board. Other game like waterfowl and wild turkey have quadrupled in population.

I'd say those are pretty good examples right there


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Deer hunting coming to an end. [Re: Koenig] #5497235 12/24/14 03:55 PM
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things have changed for sure, one of the tings is the idea that everyone should be able to shoot a 150+ every year on a $500.00 year round lease.
if you want to hunt there are more chances and places now then ever.
you want to shoot a big deer better chance now then ever.
At the end the folks that want have a nice lease or trip find a way to make it happen. save your money a couple year and go swat u a biggun.
put in for as many draws as possible
if i couldn't afford the lease i want i would be going to OK, lots of public land and good deer, just don't offend the local.

it all comes down to how much you want it and what you will do to get it

Re: Deer hunting coming to an end. [Re: Koenig] #5497236 12/24/14 03:55 PM
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I don't really think its because folks are having kids....I mean population is growing...that's for sure. but texas population is growing 3 or 4 times as fast because of the folks moving here. not because of that many kids being born.

damn subdivisions pop up all over the place. I dunno who is buying all those houses, but you see a big plenty of them end up in foreclosure. they're not really even nice developments a lot of them. just mass communities where you can tell the builder platted it based on max units and max profit. lots of farms closer to town falling like that. landowners take the money and run.

maybe some day all those crummy subdivisions will get bulldozed and turned back into ranches. that'd be something to see. most of them were worth more as ranches than they'll ever be as subdivions.

the houses sell good while the builder is financing them. but past that....many will never again be worth what they were purchased for. all downhill after that.


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Re: Deer hunting coming to an end. [Re: wetduck] #5497243 12/24/14 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: wetduck
things have changed for sure, one of the tings is the idea that everyone should be able to shoot a 150+ every year on a $500.00 year round lease.
if you want to hunt there are more chances and places now then ever.
you want to shoot a big deer better chance now then ever.
At the end the folks that want have a nice lease or trip find a way to make it happen. save your money a couple year and go swat u a biggun.
put in for as many draws as possible
if i couldn't afford the lease i want i would be going to OK, lots of public land and good deer, just don't offend the local.

it all comes down to how much you want it and what you will do to get it


truth to that too. everyone and their grandmother wants the free invitation. they think the deer are wild and public property and so they should be free/cheap. not as many anymore are willing to spend the money or put in the leg work.


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