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#5487511 - 12/19/14 10:46 AM Water Dog vs Gun Dog
Baylor_Bears Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 1046
Loc: Austin
Not to spark the age old debate of what breed dog for what purpose, but I am picking up my GSP pup in the next few weeks. He will mainly be used for retrieving, but I want a GSP and they are such versatile dogs that its just going to fit the bill. My question for those who have read the books, which is better, or should I just pick both of them up? I will be doing my own training, I enjoyed the heck outta of with my lab before she passed and cant afford to send the pup off. Thanks in advance
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#5487559 - 12/19/14 11:07 AM Re: Water Dog vs Gun Dog [Re: Baylor_Bears]
jkrugby Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 01/03/11
Posts: 59
I guess I didn't follow.

"My question for those who have read the books, which is better, or should I just pick both of them up?"

Should you pick up both what?

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#5487692 - 12/19/14 12:07 PM Re: Water Dog vs Gun Dog [Re: Baylor_Bears]
Blanco Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/29/10
Posts: 792
Loc: Ft.Worth
If you are referencing the Wolters books you should probably skip both of them.
They are pretty much considered worthless.
If you want to start pup off right, work on obedience training, it is the best base for all training to follow.
I'm not a pointing guy so I'm not really sure of where to send you for specific advice.
What I would do is find a local pointing dog club and seek out advice from experienced members.
I have read the Bill Tarrant / Delmar Smith .. I think the title is something like "Best Way to Train your Gun Dog"?
I will say Delmar Smith knows dogs and his methods work.
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#5487750 - 12/19/14 12:35 PM Re: Water Dog vs Gun Dog [Re: Baylor_Bears]
General Houston Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 09/04/13
Posts: 67
Loc: San Saba County
Get both Perfect Start/Perfect Finish and Delmar Smith's book. Like Blanco said obedience/yard work is the foundation to build on. Good luck with your new pup! What breeder are you getting him from?

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#5487755 - 12/19/14 12:39 PM Re: Water Dog vs Gun Dog [Re: Baylor_Bears]
General Houston Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 09/04/13
Posts: 67
Loc: San Saba County
I also liked the ideas in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0eBekc1S4w

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#5488202 - 12/19/14 05:41 PM Re: Water Dog vs Gun Dog [Re: Baylor_Bears]
Baylor_Bears Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 1046
Loc: Austin
Sorry for the confusion, but yes I was asking about boos and DVDs. Thanks for the info steering me away from wolters. My lab was a started dog so I skipped the puppy stage and basic obedience work. What would be the best material for things such as basic commands/yard work? I looked at the smartworks puppy program but the samples I saw I did not like
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#5488208 - 12/19/14 05:45 PM Re: Water Dog vs Gun Dog [Re: Baylor_Bears]
conifer Offline
Tracker

Registered: 09/05/11
Posts: 504
Loc: Florida, USA
I have both books, and have found them extremely useful. I used Gun Dog to train a GSP; the results amazed me. That dog could do ANYTHING! He was retrieving birds for me at 8 weeks. THe birds were bigger than he was.

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#5488211 - 12/19/14 05:48 PM Re: Water Dog vs Gun Dog [Re: Baylor_Bears]
MS1454 Online   content
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2704
Loc: Houston/Sealy
First thing is your gsp is not a lab and shouldn't be trained as such. There seems to be already a focus on obedience and as such your really be detrimental to your puppy and his relationship with you.

Some one mentioned joining a club and I agree with that advice.

There is Joan Bailey how to help a gunfight train itself or something to that effect which I like
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I'll take a Black Female every time.


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#5488221 - 12/19/14 05:58 PM Re: Water Dog vs Gun Dog [Re: Baylor_Bears]
bill oxner Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 32683
Loc: Richmond
I don't understand the question.
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Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill




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#5488300 - 12/19/14 06:54 PM Re: Water Dog vs Gun Dog [Re: bill oxner]
kindall Offline


Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 3769
Loc: Spring, Tx
Originally Posted By: bill oxner
I don't understand the question.


The question is: Which book is better Water Dog or Gun Dog?
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Shopping with your husband is like hunting with the game warden.
Experience is what you get, when you didn't get what you wanted.



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#5488361 - 12/19/14 07:35 PM Re: Water Dog vs Gun Dog [Re: Baylor_Bears]
Pittstate Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 5177
Loc: NE/CO/KS/MO/OK
Water dog is probably the most read book on dog training ever. I used it and 5 minute retriever to train my dog. In over 5k birds dropped in front or behind her, she has yet to not recover one. I am not into the trial thing....I am into the having a good hunt and having a bird dog that will retrieve the birds. My dog was on hand signals at 6 months and I used the training on Water Dog to a "T" on this. My dog even picks up the decoys or anything else I tell her to do. She even picked up a kids plastic scooter from our HOA pond once. Should have seen the eyes on that mom when I sent my dog and she brought it back....made that little boys day too. Sorry to go off on a tangent......If Water Dog and Gun Dog techniques can't train your dog......get another dog.

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#5488367 - 12/19/14 07:38 PM Re: Water Dog vs Gun Dog [Re: Baylor_Bears]
Pittstate Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 5177
Loc: NE/CO/KS/MO/OK
To answer the OP's question. I would start with Water Dog (since you will be using it for that) and then do Gun Dog. You will have a connection with your dog that no owner that sent their dog to a trainer will ever have. It is priceless and 99% will never send another dog off once they have done it themselves.

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#5488680 - 12/19/14 11:14 PM Re: Water Dog vs Gun Dog [Re: Baylor_Bears]
Blanco Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/29/10
Posts: 792
Loc: Ft.Worth
I think the first thing you should do is seriously consider what you expect of your dog.
If the dog is just going to be a hunting buddy you can do that training yourself pretty easy.
If you will be hunting with other people or think you might like to attend some dog events you will likely be well served searching out a club and seeing what lil Blockhead is capable of. The folks in most clubs are pretty friendly and will help all that they can. They will help you avoid all the dumb beginner mistakes.
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My dog gives me the bird!

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#5489260 - 12/20/14 11:56 AM Re: Water Dog vs Gun Dog [Re: Baylor_Bears]
huck18 Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 03/04/10
Posts: 1724
Loc: Ft. Worth, Texas
I don't get all these people getting pointing breeds to do retriever work. Can a pointer retrieve...yes. Can it do it to a high level like a retriever...not a chance.

I agree with what a previous poster said about not trainning the dog like a retriever. Train it like a pointer but put a little more time and emphasis on the retrieving than most pointed owners would. As far as those books/DVDs go...there both outdated and there are much better materials out there.

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#5489400 - 12/20/14 01:49 PM Re: Water Dog vs Gun Dog [Re: Baylor_Bears]
Barny Topwater Online   content
red bone Bob

Registered: 11/22/09
Posts: 2445
Loc: New Braunfels TX USA
I guess you guys haven't been exposed to pointing labs
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