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#5486985 - 12/19/14 12:12 AM WMA Sets LETHAL Coyote Traps During Quail Season
kgbill Offline
Light Foot

Registered: 10/10/09
Posts: 46
Loc: panhandle
Well, I made a trip to the Gene Howe WMA yesterday to get a little quail work in for my dogs, and they had posted hand-written signs on the door of the registration shack notifying users that they had begun their annual predator control program on the area. That is to say that they have placed LETHAL baited snares on the public quail hunting area during hunting season. Their quail season ends January 31, but they feel the time to trap coyotes is now according to their now-deleted facebook post. That's right folks, I made inquiries on their facebook page, and the post was later deleted. I am literally appalled that they would put hunting dogs in danger during season, and will be contacting TPWD with a formal complaint, as well as my State Senator. I would love to know what you guys think?

Billy G

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#5487150 - 12/19/14 07:33 AM Re: WMA Sets LETHAL Coyote Traps During Quail Season [Re: kgbill]
CCBIRDDOGMAN Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/16/07
Posts: 9277
Loc: CEDAR CREEK LAKE
If it's true, I agree, that's b.s.
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#5487959 - 12/19/14 02:38 PM Re: WMA Sets LETHAL Coyote Traps During Quail Season [Re: kgbill]
blanked Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 1299
Loc: magnolia tx
This is a common complaint in many other states in areas with bird hunters. Even more so with people who are trappers as a hobby not just the fish and game wardens. Many of the bird hunters carry necessary tools to get there dogs out of the traps in an emergency and purchase the traps to practice on. So it can be anybody setting traps if they follow guidelines. How to decide if lethal or no lethal can and where to use is a good question. I wonder how the deer for example are not at risk for the lethal traps. But texas is not alone


Edited by blanked (12/19/14 02:42 PM)

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#5488044 - 12/19/14 03:25 PM Re: WMA Sets LETHAL Coyote Traps During Quail Season [Re: kgbill]
3 alarm bbq Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 11/08/11
Posts: 224
Loc: hurst
Thanks for the heads up, we planned on taking a trip there next month. Glad we didn't drive 5 hours only to find out this info. One would think they could wait until after bird season. Guess we will go to Matador instead, too bad I heard the numbers really rebounded at Gene Howe this year.

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#5489984 - 12/20/14 08:09 PM Re: WMA Sets LETHAL Coyote Traps During Quail Season [Re: kgbill]
bassfishinglawyer Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/08/04
Posts: 727
Can you post the link - I'll be happy to make some noise

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#5490014 - 12/20/14 08:30 PM Re: WMA Sets LETHAL Coyote Traps During Quail Season [Re: bassfishinglawyer]
Chet Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 2129
Loc: Benbrook
Even if they posted the information I would think the liability issues would be astronomical if someone lost a good dog because of trapping during the season (I would never turn a dog loose if I knew there were leg traps out). You either trap or bird hunt, but not both.


Edited by Chet (12/20/14 08:32 PM)
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#5490157 - 12/20/14 10:10 PM Re: WMA Sets LETHAL Coyote Traps During Quail Season [Re: kgbill]
Flyaholic Offline
Green Horn

Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 6
I was up there hunting when they put those traps in and got to bs-ing with one of the biologist. Super nice guy. They're working real hard so we have birds to hunt. But, it's a wildlife management area we are allowed to hunt not a personal hunting preserve provided by the state. They had signs up and weren't trapping in the prime bird pastures. There was plenty of other areas to safely run a dog and find birds. Cut em some slack.

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#5490290 - 12/21/14 12:40 AM Re: WMA Sets LETHAL Coyote Traps During Quail Season [Re: kgbill]
kgbill Offline
Light Foot

Registered: 10/10/09
Posts: 46
Loc: panhandle
I couldn't disagree with you more flyaholic. When they are putting bird dogs in jeapardy they are wrong plain and simple. Those traps are more likely to catch a lost dog than a wiley coyote. If I had a nickel for every time I helped a wayward dog back to his owner on that place I could buy us all a coke at the dq, so the chances of a bird dog winding up in one of those traps is real. Forget about any actual need for the trapping; it could easily wait until Feb 1. I thought they were pretty good ol' boys too...until this. I have unhappily watched them reduce and remove hunting opportunities on the Gene Howe and the Matador for the last 10 years as they have moved from a bird hunter friendly mindset to a "quality deer for a few" mentality without criticism or complaint, but this crosses a line for me. I think it shows that they either don't know enough about the sport the manage or don't care about YOUR dogs. I really, really can't believe they don't have any concern for our dogs. I guess you might be able to tell I'm aggravated.

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#5490384 - 12/21/14 06:58 AM Re: WMA Sets LETHAL Coyote Traps During Quail Season [Re: kgbill]
hrn Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 08/17/09
Posts: 62
Loc: sw mississippi.
run in to this on a lease once was told by foreman his sons traps they were more important than my money so he traps i guess but without my money!!!!!!!!!!
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hrn

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#5490493 - 12/21/14 08:51 AM Re: WMA Sets LETHAL Coyote Traps During Quail Season [Re: kgbill]
hovercat Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 08/30/14
Posts: 429
Loc: Pantego, TX
I trap and have a little insight. I see no reason for a lethal snare. A relaxing lock snare will work just fine, and whatever you catch will be waiting for the trapper to decide if it is dispatched or not.
Properly done leghold traps will not harm a bird dog. The exception being a drowning set, I personally do not use those. Snares will have a 'deer stop' that prevents the snare from closing small enough to catch a deer foot.
Trappers and bird hunters can co-exist. I have never caught a dog in 12 years, but the possibility is there. When I or his owner release him he will be fine, I have released baby coons about the size of my hand with no injury. When you are snakeproofing your dog make him trap shy too.

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#5491165 - 12/21/14 04:35 PM Re: WMA Sets LETHAL Coyote Traps During Quail Season [Re: kgbill]
Flyaholic Offline
Green Horn

Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 6
THEY aren't putting our dogs in danger when daily registration is required and there's a big sign at the check-in station telling us what areas have traps. If you run dogs in those pastures then YOU are putting your dogs in danger.

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#5491543 - 12/21/14 06:58 PM Re: WMA Sets LETHAL Coyote Traps During Quail Season [Re: kgbill]
kgbill Offline
Light Foot

Registered: 10/10/09
Posts: 46
Loc: panhandle
Wow fly, you've never found a lost bird dog 2 Pastures over from his owner? Maybe not...but I have. I've hunted along with lost dogs (mostly setters;-) on many occasions up on the Gene Howe, and even more on the Matador. I even lost my brothers dog last year for a while. If there had been coyote traps out I would've been sick! I'm really not trying to be rude, but it sounds like maybe you hunt with Labradors or some other close-working breed? The chances of losing track of a dog are actually much greater this year than any time in the past 45 years (according to one regular hunter up there) on this place due to the extreme height of the cover in the sand hills. If you don't think a dog could easily get into one of those traps from another pasture or even a neighboring ranch you lack experience...hovercat, I appreciate the constructive insight into trapping. I am hoping they are using relaxing lock snares, but what they relayed to me before breaking contact was that "the snares are potentially lethal". I'm sure that was my fault-I was immediately upset when I got the typical TPWD obstinate-style rhetoric. As a trapper, do you see any reason why December-January would be more effective than February-March? If I wind up back up there I plan to stay upwind of those areas. Too bad they set them in some of the most reliable late season pastures.

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#5491599 - 12/21/14 07:27 PM Re: WMA Sets LETHAL Coyote Traps During Quail Season [Re: kgbill]
Scoutdog Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 212
Loc: In the fields of TX, KS, or SD
Out of curiosity, how many pastures did they say now have traps in them?
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A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

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#5491976 - 12/21/14 09:54 PM Re: WMA Sets LETHAL Coyote Traps During Quail Season [Re: kgbill]
Flyaholic Offline
Green Horn

Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 6
Kgbill, your logic is flawed and you've missed the point (pun intended). By your train of thought I guess the state should block traffic on the road on the remote chance you lose a dog and gets hit by a car. Come on, man.

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#5492101 - 12/21/14 11:20 PM Re: WMA Sets LETHAL Coyote Traps During Quail Season [Re: kgbill]
CinchMan Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 10/11/09
Posts: 1338
Loc: Country Past The City Limit Si...
If I'm hunting a WMA I shouldn't have to worry about my dogs getting into coyote traps, plain and simple. They have from Feb. 1st - the 4th weekend of October to trap. If they want the coyotes home so bad, start letting people hunt them. I don't care if the areas are marked. Shouldn't even be a concern.

Fly- your last analogy was way off and kind of dumb. He's not hunting a road, he's hunting habitat suitable to hunt with bird dogs, they can become disoriented or get out of range, he's not hunting an area cars come flying through at high speeds. Find a better analogy.
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