Well, okay. So if you use it to launch golf balls, which would be it's intended purpose, what's the problem?

You're right, I just must be stupid.

Dave3575. I appreciate your concern. Are you with the ATF? And Dave, RR didn't say you're stupid, trust me, I know what that sounds like. As far as the ATF being interested in my new toy, well pilgrim, I voted for Dear Leader several times, so the ATF is my friend. I got my bonus yesterday, so I'm ordering the 223 star crimper from C&H today.

Cows, LISTEN UP! You've been warned. Now I gotta find me some balls. (y'all have fun with that.)

1. I have zero concern, don't misunderstand me providing information for concern.

2. I don't think he called me stupid, I said I must be stupid in order to just stop trying to use logic to someone who doesn't want to hear logic.

3. The simple fact is that it can be classified as a destructive device if used in that manner. This isn't an opinion, it's a fact. Read the ATF Response Letters for the device.

4. No, I do not work with the ATF.

5. Here is an example





To me - having this device is just like having one of those "gun solvent" adapters, it's a grey area with the ATF, subject to way to much subjectivity. That response letter is only one. There is also information out there where the ATF reversed their position on one of their responses on this device because it threaded on the barrel and was considered a "silencer part" - all depends on who is making the interpretation at the time. Then a new model came out that had obstructions to prevent bullet flight, returning it to a "novelty" but it still threaded onto the barrel... There are others that are dedicated uppers to get away from that level of subjectivity. too, look up the can cannon... If a device has multiple models just to get around ATF responses then it's probably not worth it.

If it is worth it to you to take that slight chance to have to defend a charge like that, at that enormous expense regardless if you are right or wrong, and potentially lose your ability to exercise your 2A right that's that's up to you.... go shoot it at some cows. See, #1 - I have no concern.

I just received this from C&H, looks simple enough, I was over thinking it.

Instructions for Blank Crimp dies:

Most rimmed & bottlenecked cartridges (38 Spl.,223, 308, etc.) can be made into blanks by just closing the case neck with a star crimp. For these cartridges

1. size & deprime case in the usual manner,
2. trim cases to the same length, prime,
3. add powder,
4. adjust crimp die to give the desired crimp.
Note; exact length of cases is not critical as long as they are all the same length.

I need me some Red Dot...

also keep in mind these responses from the ATF are never their final legal opinion, which is why most of them say they are not "complete at this time" and they can flip and flop as much as they want. It's not right, I don't like it, but it is how it is.

ATF's website says a grenade launcher is not a destructive device. The grenade would be. Logic THAT.

I'm using a phone that makes it near impossible to read all that fine print in those letters. I'll check it out when I can get on my PC.

The letter is pretty straight forward, saying pretty much that we at the ATF can do as we please to make your life miserable. Like we all didn't already know that. As for me, I just get bored sitting in the blind sometimes, and it would be pretty cool to launch a golf ball. Now if that scares some non native livestock, my bad.

I think it would be fun to set up some 55 gallon drums in the wheat and have a round of ARGolf with the fellows. Add plenty of beer and the Gator. Hold my beer...

Depending upon the launcher and 223 load, you can send them over 400 yards. Be careful though as they can penetrate the side of an aluminum cargo van. Friend of mine uses one quite regularly. Most of the time he uses 223 blanks, but he also uses some type of German training round left over from WWII that will work as a single shot in an AR15.

I wanna come out. I'll hold your beer....

Oh, I know what you'll do JG....you'll wanna put the barrels out there at 1200 yards.



We're a bunch of old men. We can't see 1200 yards. But if you start hittin on that beer you're asked to hold it's a different story. We'll SEE that!

What's the ballistic coefficient of a golf ball?

If you get to thinking about it, that's a good question. Myth Busters proved that the dimples make a difference. If you've ever hit golf balls, you know they do weird things due to spin. Underspin makes them rise, but I'm not sure how that does anything to enhance distance.

I'd guess that over 250 yards, they're averaging about 200 fps or so. Getting hit by one would be no damned fun at all.

You could ask Joaquin Jackson about it though. I actually hit the man with a golf ball on the course in Alpine back in about '88. One of the best drives I ever hit in my life and that bastard kicked my ball off the green.

funny, the response a simple question got


end of the day, if that is what he wants to do

I have always thought. god is sorting them out

Not a troll...he's not kidding, he's actually kicking the idea around. Trust me on this.

Yep. This is happening.

Who is the troll? And who is God sorting out?

Be careful



Red dot is used in the blanks.
But grenade rounds maybe a slower powder?

Hi Tech Ammo could tell you. Do you have any loading data?

Inquiring minds want to know...

just thought it was all kind of funny

Well if that remark was aimed at me, I can assure you I am no troll.

Rifles, optics, and external ballistics are one of my passions in life. I have learned volumes and still have volumes more to learn. I like science and math and that's what a large portion of this is.

I found a little data. I'll start with 5gr of red dot for launching golf balls. The grenade launcher used 25gr of IMR 43xx have to look up the xx.