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#5475062 - 12/13/14 08:32 PM 1st post. My needs for a mid-longe range hunting scope
6.5x47Lapua Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/13/14
Posts: 518
Loc: dfw
I guess the market for my ideal hunting scope is very small. With shot show just around the corner, every year I hope more companies offer scopes to fit my needs. And it seems every year I am disappointed.

My wish list for a long range scope is very simple.


3-9, 2-10, 3-12, even a fixed 6x scope would work.
30mm or 1 inch tube
40-42mm objective lens
12 inches or under in length
large field of view
around 20 ounces in weight
ffp 1/2 mil reticle
mil adjusted, capped windage knob
reliable and repeatable adjustments
10 mil elevation knob with either zero stop or lock
top tier glass
easy no bs warranty
parallax adjustable
1-1.5k in price.

Currently only the Bushnell lrhs fits the above features. I have been making do with a vortex razor, weaver emdr, trijicon 3-9 mildot, and sightron mildots for years now.

What worries me is every year scope companies come out with higher and higher mag range scopes. I love the modern features, but not the weight and size penalties. These long range scopes are better measured in pounds than ounces. Who wants to hunt with a scope that by itself weighs 3-4 pounds? Mirage dictates I turn my scopes down below 12x most of the time anyways. I can't remember the last time my razor was turned up above 18x.

My hunting mostly involves pigs from 10-900ish yards. All I need to do is be able to identify, yes that is a pig. I don't need to count points, or measure spread. I do need a large field of view to see where these pigs are going, and to make sure no cows are in the area.

Back in the 90's schmidt bender made a simple fixed 6x pmII scope with a mildot reticle and 12 mil knobs. Throw a klein reticle, along with a lifetime warranty, in that thing and sign me up!


Why is it that someone feels the need to have a 20-40x scope for long range shooting of 1-2moa or larger targets? In UKD type shooting, I would simply be lost at high magnification. I feel that the field of view is paramount when transitioning from x target at 436 yards to y target at 867 yards. Not to mention if those two targets may be 45 degrees from each other.

I am curious to see if I'm the only one who feels the industry is missing the boat.

And finally, a few pics of the hunting grounds.





Edited by 6.5x47Lapua (12/14/14 12:15 PM)
Edit Reason: more criteria added

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#5475118 - 12/13/14 09:26 PM Re: 1st post. My needs for a mid-longe range hunting scope [Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
No they're not missing the boat. Thus the existence of FFP and a variable power scope. "Making do with a Vortex Razor"? Really? Awesome scope. Only bad about it is weight. Want to cut weight, go with a Viper PST Mil/Mil FFP. They have a 2.5-10x, 4-16x, and 6-24x, pick the one that suites your needs. Want low magnification? Turn it down. Want mid or high magnification? Turn it up. I don't get your disconnect here. You obviously know how to shoot distance. And other than weight of a scope they are giving us as many options as we could ask for.
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#5475223 - 12/13/14 10:41 PM Re: 1st post. My needs for a mid-longe range hunting scope [Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
MacDaddy21 Online   content
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/19/11
Posts: 1593
Loc: CO
I've been impressed with the SWFA SS 5-20x50 HD, and its $1500.

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#5475247 - 12/13/14 10:54 PM Re: 1st post. My needs for a mid-longe range hunting scope [Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
slayer12 Offline
Tracker

Registered: 11/28/07
Posts: 942
Loc: Whitney, Tx
If you want to sell that razor shoot me a pm with specs and price.


Edited by slayer12 (12/13/14 10:55 PM)

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#5475292 - 12/13/14 11:42 PM Re: 1st post. My needs for a mid-longe range hunting scope [Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
spg Offline
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Registered: 08/11/13
Posts: 903
I jack up the magnification when I'm shooting 600+. I like to see what I'm shooting as clearly as possible especially an animal. I can't put my finger on what your trying to point out.

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#5475369 - 12/14/14 06:19 AM Re: 1st post. My needs for a mid-longe range hunting scope [Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
6.5x47Lapua Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/13/14
Posts: 518
Loc: dfw
A couple more points and observations. My razor is a fine long range scope, and I have put that thing through hell. The razor is not a hunting scope. 35 ounces gets old quick on my morning walks around the ranch. Also, I really don't like the exposed windage turret. I hold for all my wind either target shooting or hunting. I am not the only long range shooter who does this. I need a windage knob that I can set my 100 yard zero, cap it, and then forget about it.

The whole reason I bought the Weaver EMDR was because it has a decent mag range 3-15, ffp, and locking turrets. Having used it for a few years now, I am still left with wanting more. Even though it has locking turrets, they still aren't low profile enough. And finally, the EMDR reticle is complete garbage in that scope. Why in the world they woudn't have 1/2 mil markings between 0 and 1 mils is beyond me. 75 percent of my wind calls are between 0 and 1 mil. It may as well just be a plain jane mildot reticle.

The SS 5-20 may be a good scope, but 31 ounces, exposed windage, no zero stop. It just doesn't have what I need. I tried a SS 3-9 when it first came out. The non-hd glass was not up to par. Changing magnification was a pain without a switchview. If SWFA would come out with another 3-9 that had the capped turrets from the 1-6, parallax,better glass, better mag ring, and keep it at 20 ounces, I would be all over it. As long as I am dreaming, the ss would be even better if it were around 11 inches long.



Vortex pst are also a no go for most of the same reasons I pointed out above. Vortex seems to be coming around, but apparently they are convinced that all long range hunting scopes need to be MOA/MOA. They make a 4-16 Viper HS LR that has most all of the features I am looking for. Capped low profile windage knob, ffp, etc, etc.
Too bad its made in the Phillipines and has an MOA reticle and adjustments.

I am wanting Vortex to come out with a 2-12 hunting razor that have the features listed above. They cater to the hunting crowd with other razor products. They make a great pair of binos, and an awesome range of razor spotting scopes. Yet, when it comes time to make the shot, it's back to the Viper line.

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#5475377 - 12/14/14 06:39 AM Re: 1st post. My needs for a mid-longe range hunting scope [Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
6.5x47Lapua Offline
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Registered: 12/13/14
Posts: 518
Loc: dfw
Another point on magnification. I rarely use any mag above 12x when shooting long range, and anything above 12 is a killer for a hunting scope. I stress to people all the time, that the target doesn't have to take up the whole view in the scope. We need to be able to identify the animal or target, and use the appropiate hold. I want as large a field of view as possible to do this, because I have to keep an eye out for the cattle, and I want to be able to transition easily to the next pig.

My style of hunting isn't done out of a blind. I hunt on my familes cattle ranch. We have a pig problem. This ranch is more narrow than it is wide, and about 3.5 miles from the front to the back. I do alot of walking. I see alot more pigs when I get up and simply walk to the front of the ranch and back. Often times these pigs will be in the same fields as cattle, and they are almost always on the move. If I cranked a scope up to 25-30x, I wouldn't be able to make sure the cattle are clear of the pigs.

Can you guys see where I'm coming from? Simple scope, low magnification, low weight, and feature rich. This equals easy hikes and more ham in the freezer. The Bushnell LRHS gets this. I am hoping other companies will soon too.

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#5475494 - 12/14/14 08:26 AM Re: 1st post. My needs for a mid-longe range hunting scope [Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
tannerlst Online   content


Registered: 01/31/09
Posts: 5143
Loc: Dallas
Maybe try the new swfa 3-15x42 FFP ?


Edited by tannerlst (12/14/14 08:26 AM)

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#5475572 - 12/14/14 09:19 AM Re: 1st post. My needs for a mid-longe range hunting scope [Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
I understand holding wind and not touching the windage turret again. That's what I do 99% of the time. I also understand wanting low magnification on the low end, but when you do that you sacrifice high end. Pay attention to your windage turrets and make sure they're zeroed. Bushnell Elite 3-12x is good and you may try the SS 3-15x. Other than that, e-mail mafacturers telling them what you would like to see produced.
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#5475752 - 12/14/14 11:14 AM Re: 1st post. My needs for a mid-longe range hunting scope [Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
6.5x47Lapua Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/13/14
Posts: 518
Loc: dfw
FiremanJG, you see what I mean about those dang windage knobs. They do nothing for me but cause trouble. The fewer items I need to keep track of before the shot, the better. I would much rather focus on the target, wind condition, etc, etc.

In recent years scope companies seem to be catching on. Locking turrets seem to be gaining ground. Look at the Gen II razor for example. Or take a look at the leupold mark 6. Tiny capped windage, low profile m5c2 with zero stop and zero lock, good mag range, and only 24 ounces. I just can't swing the 2.5k at this time. It's a shame that they charge almost a grand for the m5c2 elevation knob and illumination. They can have the illumination, just give us the m5c2 knob. If leupold offered the same adjustments in the ffp mark 4 3-10, or the fx3 6x42, I would be all over that too. You see, these manufacturers are making all the features a guy could want. They just need to offer those features in the whole line of scopes. I think we could all agree that the m5c2 turret is a giant leap ahead of the basic m5 turret.

On the ss 3-15, I see zero advantage over my current Weaver. At least my weaver has locking knobs, even if they are oversized.

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#5475767 - 12/14/14 11:25 AM Re: 1st post. My needs for a mid-longe range hunting scope [Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
Big Fitz Online   content
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 12/06/09
Posts: 2001
Loc: McKinney, TX
First of all, I am a total rookie at the long(er) range game and what little I know, or think I know, is what I've learned from the fine folks on this forum. The statement 6.5x47Lapua made that resonates with me is a capped windage knob as it seems most do not dial windage and the tall turret does protrude more than I would like for hunting or even target shooting purposes. In searching for a decent/good 1-4 scope in Mils for ARs I was unable to find what I wanted (capped turrets in mil/mil) in the $500 range without a compromise. Vortex has one that is capped but it is in MOA, SWFA has want I want but $700+. I ended up getting the SWFA 1-6 on sale and it should provide what I am looking for but more $ than what I really want to spend. I also just got the SWFA 3-9X42 but not sure it is HD and it may be just what 6.5x47Lapua is looking for except the capped windage turret. Mils and FFP are much easier for me to understand so I am switching out nearly all my scopes to be consistent and it is costing me a small fortune but am confident it will help me learn this long range game.


Edited by Big Fitz (12/14/14 11:34 AM)
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Originally Posted By: syncerus
I prefer to think of myself as a control enthusiast. wink

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#5475775 - 12/14/14 11:33 AM Re: 1st post. My needs for a mid-longe range hunting scope [Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
6.5x47Lapua Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/13/14
Posts: 518
Loc: dfw
Big Fitz, the pic I posted above with the ar15 in it has a ss 3-9. SWFA almost got that scope right, but I found several things about it that I just didn't like. See post #6 for my reasons.

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#5475792 - 12/14/14 11:47 AM Re: 1st post. My needs for a mid-longe range hunting scope [Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
Big Fitz Online   content
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 12/06/09
Posts: 2001
Loc: McKinney, TX
Got it 6.5, I did get the switchview for the 3-9 and I believe/hope it is now HD (listed in that section and now advertised as such but box does not indicate so) but it still has the target windage knob. The next thing I "think" I want on SWFA scopes is more of a EBR-2B reticle Vortex has...seems like this would be good for hunting when dialing may not be practical or engaging multiple targets at different ranges in a short amount of time. So many choices and so little time/money...
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Originally Posted By: syncerus
I prefer to think of myself as a control enthusiast. wink

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#5475813 - 12/14/14 12:06 PM Re: 1st post. My needs for a mid-longe range hunting scope [Re: Big Fitz]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Oh, Fitz we gonna engage multiple targets at various ranges quickly when you come out. grin

Get a good night sleep the night before...
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#5476324 - 12/14/14 04:40 PM Re: 1st post. My needs for a mid-longe range hunting scope [Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
spg Offline
Tracker

Registered: 08/11/13
Posts: 903
I still prefer the high power scope to size up a buck, and no I don't try to fill the reticle with the target when taking a shot. Most of my LR shots are hunting situations, never could find time to shoot competition with work, three kids and, a hunting lease. I shoot regularly at home, fortunate to have a huge yard with two homemade ranges right out the door of my reloading room.

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