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High Fence question.
#5467938
12/09/14 10:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 693
JTS
OP
Tracker
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OP
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 693 |
I am considering high fencing a portion of my property (500-600 acres). I am not wanting to open a guided hunt place, just a place for me and my family to use. I discussed this with a buddy and he thought that you had to remove/kill all the deer in the fence and stock it with purchased whitetails. I can't believe that to be true but I thought I would ask here and check.
For any of you that have high fenced a place do you normally just let the deer trapped when building the fence mature or do you bring in good genetics after you fence it in?
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Re: High Fence question.
[Re: JTS]
#5468022
12/09/14 10:48 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,072
cabosandinh
Veteran Tracker
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Joined: Aug 2013
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he's suggesting you start with known genetics, nothing wrong with that
I would leave the existing deer population and add additional genes only if they truly are inferior
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Re: High Fence question.
[Re: JTS]
#5468051
12/09/14 11:07 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,016
SingleShot85
Veteran Tracker
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all depends, do you like the mature deer you have on your property...... a fence itn't going to make them automatically get bigger..... with a sound mgmt plan for that 600 acres and about 10 years you can make a significant shift upward with the current population....
of course if you want faster results your buddy may be on to something...
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Re: High Fence question.
[Re: SingleShot85]
#5468197
12/10/14 12:45 AM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10
Falcon09
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10 |
It's my understanding that the deer on your property do not belong to you. The deer belong to the state of Texas, so they must be removed from your property. Not sure how you would do that.
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Re: High Fence question.
[Re: Falcon09]
#5468261
12/10/14 01:16 AM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,472
DQ Kid
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It's my understanding that the deer on your property do not belong to you. The deer belong to the state of Texas, so they must be removed from your property. Not sure how you would do that. Think this is more conceptual than actual. I've known several that have built high fences without running off all the deer or capturing them. Think all that is required is to not restrain them as the fence is being built meaning they are free to roam out during the high fence build.
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Re: High Fence question.
[Re: Falcon09]
#5468301
12/10/14 01:38 AM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 347
TX Hitman
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Oct 2011
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It's my understanding that the deer on your property do not belong to you. The deer belong to the state of Texas, so they must be removed from your property. Not sure how you would do that. X2 Was told that by the GW about a month ago. There a loooong high fence going up near where we hunt. Was visiting about it because the GW lives about 15 miles from there and said the exact same as above. He said that they will inventory it once the fence is complete and check back with the land owner to make sure he in complying.
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Re: High Fence question.
[Re: JTS]
#5468316
12/10/14 01:48 AM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,891
txshntr
T-Rex Arms
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T-Rex Arms
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,891 |
You can fence them in, you are just restricted by the laws of the state, same as a LF place. From what I have seen and read, there is nothing illegal about fencing in deer. What if all your neighbors fenced off their property, you supposed to kill off or run off the states deer? There are plenty of HF places that simply manage the native herd.
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Re: High Fence question.
[Re: txshntr]
#5468317
12/10/14 01:50 AM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,472
DQ Kid
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You can fence them in, you are just restricted by the laws of the state, same as a LF place. From what I have seen and read, there is nothing illegal about fencing in deer. What if all your neighbors fenced off their property, you supposed to kill off or run off the states deer? There are plenty of HF places that simply manage the native herd. This is my understanding too TREX, never while hunting South Texas did I hear this inventorying and releasing the deer. Could be a newer regulation that I'm not aware of I guess.
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Re: High Fence question.
[Re: txshntr]
#5468681
12/10/14 06:44 AM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10
Falcon09
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10 |
You can fence them in, you are just restricted by the laws of the state, same as a LF place. From what I have seen and read, there is nothing illegal about fencing in deer. What if all your neighbors fenced off their property, you supposed to kill off or run off the states deer? There are plenty of HF places that simply manage the native herd. High fencing your property and being fenced in are two seperate incidents. I wasn't 100 percent sure but the post on here got his info straight from a Game Warden.
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Re: High Fence question.
[Re: Falcon09]
#5468894
12/10/14 02:06 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,891
txshntr
T-Rex Arms
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T-Rex Arms
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You can fence them in, you are just restricted by the laws of the state, same as a LF place. From what I have seen and read, there is nothing illegal about fencing in deer. What if all your neighbors fenced off their property, you supposed to kill off or run off the states deer? There are plenty of HF places that simply manage the native herd. High fencing your property and being fenced in are two seperate incidents. I wasn't 100 percent sure but the post on here got his info straight from a Game Warden. Same principal and from the laws I have read, they do not distinguish the difference. I have been on a lot of HF operations, but have only been involved with one from the beginning. Only time I have heard of a HF operation clearing out the native population is for management purposes, never because they are the states deer and you can't trap them. I will look to see if I can find the codes that address this, but surprised some of the HF owners on this forum haven't chimed in.
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Re: High Fence question.
[Re: Falcon09]
#5468950
12/10/14 02:31 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,476
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,476 |
You can fence them in, you are just restricted by the laws of the state, same as a LF place. From what I have seen and read, there is nothing illegal about fencing in deer. What if all your neighbors fenced off their property, you supposed to kill off or run off the states deer? There are plenty of HF places that simply manage the native herd. High fencing your property and being fenced in are two seperate incidents. I wasn't 100 percent sure but the post on here got his info straight from a Game Warden. Ironically two of the largest native deer killed in texas was on a ranch that was fenced in
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Re: High Fence question.
[Re: TX Hitman]
#5468963
12/10/14 02:39 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,476
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,476 |
It's my understanding that the deer on your property do not belong to you. The deer belong to the state of Texas, so they must be removed from your property. Not sure how you would do that. X2 Was told that by the GW about a month ago. There a loooong high fence going up near where we hunt. Was visiting about it because the GW lives about 15 miles from there and said the exact same as above. He said that they will inventory it once the fence is complete and check back with the land owner to make sure he in complying. You either misunderstood him or his is wrong. I'm betting misunderstood
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Re: High Fence question.
[Re: JTS]
#5468965
12/10/14 02:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,719
cameron00
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
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Yeah, you absolutely do not have to "remove the deer" when you put a high fence up. Furthermore, if you're putting the fence up to keep deer out rather than in, the State will oversee a total kill operation within the fence.
You're still regulated by the State as to how many you can kill, etc., so just putting a HF up doesn't really change a whole lot as far as the deer go.
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Re: High Fence question.
[Re: JTS]
#5469561
12/10/14 07:05 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 693
JTS
OP
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OP
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When we run cattle we always bring in a bull that is not genetically related to the female cows, but we sell off all the calfs.
I know inbreeding will happen with deer fenced in. Is this a problem?
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Re: High Fence question.
[Re: JTS]
#5469565
12/10/14 07:11 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 28,032
Navasot
Hollywood
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Hollywood
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 28,032 |
When we run cattle we always bring in a bull that is not genetically related to the female cows, but we sell off all the calfs.
I know inbreeding will happen with deer fenced in. Is this a problem? No... to an extent atleast
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Re: High Fence question.
[Re: JTS]
#5469566
12/10/14 07:13 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 28,032
Navasot
Hollywood
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Hollywood
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 28,032 |
And I know plenty that raise Native deer in HF operations... I actually like the idea better than bringing in breeders.. that way you can see the full potential of an areas herd
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Re: High Fence question.
[Re: Falcon09]
#5470615
12/11/14 05:03 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
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It's my understanding that the deer on your property do not belong to you. The deer belong to the state of Texas, so they must be removed from your property. Not sure how you would do that. I have no idea where you got that idea. While the state may say they own the deer, you are in charge of keeping them or destroying them. It is the landowners choice.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: High Fence question.
[Re: TX Hitman]
#5470619
12/11/14 05:05 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179 |
It's my understanding that the deer on your property do not belong to you. The deer belong to the state of Texas, so they must be removed from your property. Not sure how you would do that. X2 Was told that by the GW about a month ago. There a loooong high fence going up near where we hunt. Was visiting about it because the GW lives about 15 miles from there and said the exact same as above. He said that they will inventory it once the fence is complete and check back with the land owner to make sure he in complying. Total BS.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: High Fence question.
[Re: JTS]
#5470669
12/11/14 05:51 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179 |
I am considering high fencing a portion of my property (500-600 acres). I am not wanting to open a guided hunt place, just a place for me and my family to use. I discussed this with a buddy and he thought that you had to remove/kill all the deer in the fence and stock it with purchased whitetails. I can't believe that to be true but I thought I would ask here and check.
For any of you that have high fenced a place do you normally just let the deer trapped when building the fence mature or do you bring in good genetics after you fence it in? It depends on what you want. If you want deer with 200+" antlers you're going to need to kill the native deer off and introduce improved genetics. Introducing improved genetics into a native population is a waste if $ and time.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: High Fence question.
[Re: JTS]
#5470772
12/11/14 01:13 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,950
don k
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2008
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You erect a HF and whatever is in it or not in it does not matter. If you are MLD you follow those rules. If you are not you follow the TPWS rules for hunting. Same as LF. Nothing different.
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Re: High Fence question.
[Re: JTS]
#5470816
12/11/14 01:36 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,041
tlk
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,041 |
I did this on a 600 acre ranch I owned a few years ago. I high fenced it and debated whether to improve the native deer that were captured within my high fence or to kill all of the native deer and start from scratch. After a lot of research and talking to folks in the know, I elected to take the second option. So I killed all of the native deer with help of friends.
Then I bought 3 two year old bucks from three different breeders and 3 bred does from three different breeders. The deer I bought had various characteristics and bloodlines and from different states.
I had no plans do any type of commercial hunting - I wanted to do this just for friends and family to enjoy. After five years I was putting together a great herd but then sold the place. I had a lot of fun with the project.
One suggestion if you go this route. If you do the math on a place this size starting with 6 total deer, it actually does not take long at all for the place to get over run with deer. Calculate that the does average one and a half fawns each year of which half are bucks and half are does the multiplication ramps up rather quickly. So after the first couple of years you will need to start controlling the population. Good luck with it and have fun!
You can't fix stupid
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Re: High Fence question.
[Re: JTS]
#5471171
12/11/14 04:48 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 693
JTS
OP
Tracker
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OP
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 693 |
Thanks guys
tlk, I just ran the numbers from your post and was surprised by what I came up with. I would like you get your thoughts on these numbers and see if it correlated with what you had planned.
The ranch I bought last year is 1,300 acres. I am only wanting to high fence about 650 of it. Right now we figure the carrying capacity at 1 cow/calf pair per 20-30 acres depending on the mother nature. I looked up the deer equivalent of a cow and found it to be 6.67 deer per cow. That would put the deer carrying capacity at 132-198 deer at max capacity.
If you start with 3 bucks and 3 does with the does having 1.5 fawns per year (half being does) and everything went perfect you would have 6 deer year 1. Year 2 you would have about 11 deer total half bucks half does. Year 3 18 deer, year 4 32 deer, year 5 56 deer, year 6 98 deer, year 7 172 each year half bucks/half does.
My thinking is that it would be ideal if we took 10 bucks per year off the place. In order to keep the buck doe ratio right you would also need to shoot 10 does per year. It looks like between year 4 and year 5 you add 24 deer to the ranch so that is where you need to start taking deer at a pace of about 10 bucks and 10 does each year to keep the herd at around 32. If you let it get any larger you will have to take much more deer off the place to keep thing from getting out of control.
I don't think I would want to wait until between year 5 and 6 because you would have to take 20 bucks and 20 does in order to keep things right. I don't know if I have enough people I would invite to hunt for free.
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Re: High Fence question.
[Re: JTS]
#5471280
12/11/14 05:39 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,034
Western
THF Celebrity
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Posts: 29,034 |
I'm sure the laws have changed, but in the early 90's we wher thinking about installing a HF, since we where lready in the "big bird bidness". Had the TPW biologist out for Erath Co, they told me that in order to HF in native deer, I would have to HF a minimum of 50 acres to confine a native.. Of course HF and deer operations have come along way from that time
JTS ""I don't think I would want to wait until between year 5 and 6 because you would have to take 20 bucks and 20 does in order to keep things right. I don't know if I have enough people I would invite to hunt for free.""
I bet you could find plenty of "willing "participants here on THF! Or, start/ use your business and take wounded warriors/ Handicap kids and take the tax deductions if possible. I'd be wiling to bet taking those kind of people would give you a much greater sense of reward than a 200" buck..
If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is not for you..
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln Dennis
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Re: High Fence question.
[Re: JTS]
#5471316
12/11/14 05:53 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,041
tlk
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,041 |
Thanks guys
tlk, I just ran the numbers from your post and was surprised by what I came up with. I would like you get your thoughts on these numbers and see if it correlated with what you had planned.
The ranch I bought last year is 1,300 acres. I am only wanting to high fence about 650 of it. Right now we figure the carrying capacity at 1 cow/calf pair per 20-30 acres depending on the mother nature. I looked up the deer equivalent of a cow and found it to be 6.67 deer per cow. That would put the deer carrying capacity at 132-198 deer at max capacity.
If you start with 3 bucks and 3 does with the does having 1.5 fawns per year (half being does) and everything went perfect you would have 6 deer year 1. Year 2 you would have about 11 deer total half bucks half does. Year 3 18 deer, year 4 32 deer, year 5 56 deer, year 6 98 deer, year 7 172 each year half bucks/half does.
My thinking is that it would be ideal if we took 10 bucks per year off the place. In order to keep the buck doe ratio right you would also need to shoot 10 does per year. It looks like between year 4 and year 5 you add 24 deer to the ranch so that is where you need to start taking deer at a pace of about 10 bucks and 10 does each year to keep the herd at around 32. If you let it get any larger you will have to take much more deer off the place to keep thing from getting out of control.
I think you right on the money - I would cull as I go. Also, killing all the native deer off on 500-600 acres is not as easy as one would think. The does get really skittish and the deer will go nocturnal in some cases. I also assume you plan a feeding program with protein stations, cottonseed, etc. I had two food plots on my place that helped plus I fed bales of alfalfa. I don't think I would want to wait until between year 5 and 6 because you would have to take 20 bucks and 20 does in order to keep things right. I don't know if I have enough people I would invite to hunt for free.
You can't fix stupid
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Re: High Fence question.
[Re: JTS]
#5471599
12/11/14 08:34 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,213
tShawnB
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Sep 2012
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No comment, this thread isn't about hunting.
How come everybody I meet is a deer hunting expert?
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