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Old cull buck question??
#5466352
12/09/14 04:38 AM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 316
BigBucky2014
OP
Bird Dog
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OP
Bird Dog
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 316 |
I have a question about shooting old deer as cull bucks. Once a deer passes his prime, he's typically considered a cull or management buck. I'm assuming this is the case in order to get them out of the breeding pool, but aren't they breeding does with the same genetics they had 1 or 2 years earlier? I mean, if a deer was a stud at 3.5 or 4.5yrs, wouldn't his offspring still be good if he bred a doe at 6.5yrs. Maybe we just cull them because they'll never be any better, just curious and would appreciate some perspective.
Thanks,
Keith
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Re: Old cull buck question??
[Re: BigBucky2014]
#5466374
12/09/14 04:52 AM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,891
txshntr
T-Rex Arms
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T-Rex Arms
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,891 |
Most places take them out so there is one less mouth to feed. Many of the older bucks don't breed anymore or breed less than they used too. A misconception of culling is that you are culling to eliminate a genetic trait from the herd. In reality, without a HF, you are not. It would take extensive killing to eliminate a trait from the herd, not just selective culling of the bucks. You are simply selecting which bucks reach maturity, reducing the amount of mouths to feed and reducing the competition.
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Re: Old cull buck question??
[Re: BigBucky2014]
#5467001
12/09/14 04:06 PM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 862
rattler03
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 862 |
Yes, his genetics are always going to be the same. Everything txshtr said is right on. Culling an old buck is really only going to take another mouth off your place to let other deer get more nutrition. Another reason culling bucks has little impact on the overall genetic makeup of your herd is that you are only impacted 50% of the equation by eliminating a buck, the doe contributes the other 50%. Figuring out which does are better genetically takes a lot of time and is probably unrealistic for most management plans. You'd have to know which yearlings belonged to certain does, track the yearling bucks antler growth, and be able to identify that doe from the others. That seems to be a tough task and near impossible to me.
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Re: Old cull buck question??
[Re: BigBucky2014]
#5468201
12/10/14 12:48 AM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,216
kyle1974
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,216 |
if you don't cull him, the other deer may run with scissors. and nobody wants that.
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Re: Old cull buck question??
[Re: BigBucky2014]
#5468263
12/10/14 01:18 AM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 248
BooneDog
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 248 |
If you take him he his filling your freezer and putting food on the table versus feeding the local coyote family. You reap the benefits of hard work and money to feed a herd of deer. Late winter is hard on old deer, if they make it threw deer season a good portion of them will not make it to spring.
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Re: Old cull buck question??
[Re: BigBucky2014]
#5468295
12/10/14 01:34 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 807
Russ79
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 807 |
One thing that gets lost in the "cull" conversation is that this is a process not a term for bad deer. A "cull" is whatever you want to take out of the herd- to cull it out. I have heard many folks ask "Is this a cull?". You set your management goal, evaluate your herd, and target those bucks that won't help in meeting that goal. Those are the ones that you are going " cull" from the herd, hence he is a cull. I have heard of a lease that is trying to manage for bucks of 10 points or more so they consider any mature 8 point to be a cull. Would you consider an 8 point with an 18" spread that is 4-1/2 years old a cull? Based on this lease's management goal he is. So a cull is whatever you want it to be. Like was mentioned above, bucks are only half of the genetic equation but trying to identify inferior does is extremely difficult.
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Re: Old cull buck question??
[Re: BigBucky2014]
#5468322
12/10/14 01:58 AM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 316
BigBucky2014
OP
Bird Dog
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OP
Bird Dog
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 316 |
Thanks for all the feedback guys. I've never been against taking an older buck, I just wanted to validate the reasoning why and make sure I wasn't missing something. All of the points above are very sound and in line with my thinking. Thanks for confirming my thoughts.
Last edited by BigBucky2014; 12/10/14 01:59 AM.
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Re: Old cull buck question??
[Re: kyle1974]
#5468443
12/10/14 02:48 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 357
GunsUpHunter
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 357 |
if you don't cull him, the other deer may run with scissors. and nobody wants that. QFGDT!
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Re: Old cull buck question??
[Re: kyle1974]
#5468602
12/10/14 05:12 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,795
dogcatcher
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,795 |
if you don't cull him, the other deer may run with scissors. and nobody wants that.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back. _____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: Old cull buck question??
[Re: BigBucky2014]
#5471609
12/11/14 08:40 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 907
Erich
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 907 |
like was said above.....a cull Is whatever type of deer that will not turn into something you are managing for. it varies greatly based on your management goals and the size and type of property you have to work with. also has a lot to do with density numbers. intense deer management is often a numbers game.
if you do not have management goals, then the term cull means nothing because you only harvest a deer that you see as desirable.
generally though...reasonable management goals on a reasonable amount of acreage means that a certain number of does are shot, a certain number of younger-middle aged bucks that appear to be lacking in antler development by comparison to their similar aged counterparts are shot....and
trophy quality deer are generally harvested when mature and when they are believed to have made their best set of antlers. they will eventually start go back downhill antler-wise with age. their reproductive capacity would be good until death though. though I suppose there are always some that slip thru....a deer would not be culled simply because of age.
Outdoorsman
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