texashuntingforum.com logo
Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
TraeMartin, Beatixre, MooseSteed, Trappernewt, casyoo
71987 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
dogcatcher 110,788
bill oxner 91,416
SnakeWrangler 65,413
stxranchman 60,296
Gravytrain 46,950
RKHarm24 44,585
rifleman 44,461
Stub 43,764
Forum Statistics
Forums46
Topics536,987
Posts9,719,151
Members86,987
Most Online25,604
Feb 12th, 2024
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Axis deer Crossbreeding #5454569 12/02/14 11:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 267
K
Kobus Offline OP
Bird Dog
OP Offline
Bird Dog
K
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 267
Will axis cross with any other deer species?

Re: Axis deer Crossbreeding [Re: Kobus] #5454589 12/02/14 11:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,164
C
Chief Joe Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
C
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,164
I have wondered that also. Seems like the general consensus was no. confused2



"It is the same boiling water that softens the rice, which hardens the egg." It's not always about the circumstances, but what you are made of....
Re: Axis deer Crossbreeding [Re: Kobus] #5454622 12/02/14 11:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
T
TonyinVA Offline
Pro Tracker
Offline
Pro Tracker
T
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
Chital (AKA Axis deer) share the genus Axis with three other species (Hog Deer,Calamian Deer and Bawean deer). So, hybridization with one of these is probably possible. That said, I don't think they will cross with whitetails, muledeer, etc.

Last edited by TonyinVA; 12/03/14 12:07 AM.
Re: Axis deer Crossbreeding [Re: Kobus] #5454658 12/03/14 12:04 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 718
T
trjscout Offline
Tracker
Offline
Tracker
T
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 718
I don't think they will but I watched a whitetail chase some axis does all over the pasture last year he was worn out, tongue hanging out and all ! so it must at least smell the same!

Re: Axis deer Crossbreeding [Re: trjscout] #5454663 12/03/14 12:07 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
T
TonyinVA Offline
Pro Tracker
Offline
Pro Tracker
T
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
Originally Posted By: trjscout
I don't think they will but I watched a whitetail chase some axis does all over the pasture last year he was worn out, tongue hanging out and all ! so it must at least smell the same!


Any WT buck or Axis Buck will chase any doe in heat...just can't impregnate if it's not the same species.

Re: Axis deer Crossbreeding [Re: Kobus] #5455321 12/03/14 05:03 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,376
N
nsmike Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
N
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,376
Axis x hog deer crosses have been reported in Indian zoos. They are fertile and will back cross, other crosses that have been reported, were either nonviable or sterile.

Last edited by nsmike; 12/03/14 05:04 AM.

for every stereotype there's a prototype don't be the prototype
Re: Axis deer Crossbreeding [Re: Kobus] #5461510 12/06/14 09:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 12,547
C
chital_shikari Offline
Minor in training
Offline
Minor in training
C
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 12,547
Axis will cross with the animals in its same genus (like hog deer) as stated above.

Re: Axis deer Crossbreeding [Re: Kobus] #5461560 12/06/14 10:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,518
Reloder28 Offline
Pro Tracker
Offline
Pro Tracker
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,518
Back in the 50's, Axis were brought to the YO Ranch for a WT/Axis crossbreeding experiment in an attempt to get larger framed WT antlers. While the original crossbreeding worked as intended, the next generation reverted to original pure genetics on both sides. The program was abandoned.


[b][/b]
Re: Axis deer Crossbreeding [Re: Kobus] #5461574 12/06/14 10:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,539
T
TexFlip Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
T
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,539
Won't they cross with a barasingha as well?


Originally Posted by unclebubba
Just to make sure that it is done thoroughly, I go both ways.

Re: Axis deer Crossbreeding [Re: TexFlip] #5461672 12/06/14 11:38 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,376
N
nsmike Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
N
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,376
Originally Posted By: TexFlip
Won't they cross with a barasingha as well?

They will cross, in one case, 3 of 4 fawns were still born. The fourth did survive but there are no records of reproduction. It's unknown if breeding attempts with the cross were made.


for every stereotype there's a prototype don't be the prototype
Re: Axis deer Crossbreeding [Re: Reloder28] #5461686 12/06/14 11:46 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 267
K
Kobus Offline OP
Bird Dog
OP Offline
Bird Dog
K
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 267
Originally Posted By: Reloder28
Back in the 50's, Axis were brought to the YO Ranch for a WT/Axis crossbreeding experiment in an attempt to get larger framed WT antlers. While the original crossbreeding worked as intended, the next generation reverted to original pure genetics on both sides. The program was abandoned.

I've never heard this? Source? They belong to very different genus's. Also even so that's stupid.....Can't people just let species be for what they are?

Re: Axis deer Crossbreeding [Re: Kobus] #5461700 12/06/14 11:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,518
Reloder28 Offline
Pro Tracker
Offline
Pro Tracker
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,518
That story was related to me by a prominent ranch owner in Real County. He benefited greatly from that program.


[b][/b]
Re: Axis deer Crossbreeding [Re: Kobus] #5461704 12/06/14 11:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 267
K
Kobus Offline OP
Bird Dog
OP Offline
Bird Dog
K
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 267
I don't get how they could produce offspring? They belong in entirely different subfamilies

Re: Axis deer Crossbreeding [Re: Kobus] #5461761 12/07/14 12:38 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,376
N
nsmike Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
N
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,376
There is some information here deer hybrids


for every stereotype there's a prototype don't be the prototype
Re: Axis deer Crossbreeding [Re: Kobus] #5461762 12/07/14 12:40 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 267
K
Kobus Offline OP
Bird Dog
OP Offline
Bird Dog
K
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 267
The same site also talks about dog x cow hybrids, human x pig hybrids, and rabbit x pigeon hybrids.......
And also tries to explain that we are pig X chimp hybrids....give me a break!

Last edited by Kobus; 12/07/14 12:53 AM.
Re: Axis deer Crossbreeding [Re: Kobus] #5461777 12/07/14 12:54 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,376
N
nsmike Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
N
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,376
It's an aggregator of reports, in some cases they post a separate article on the report, usually providing links to more information. I wouldn't take the reports as gospel, just as starting points, for further investigation.


for every stereotype there's a prototype don't be the prototype
Re: Axis deer Crossbreeding [Re: Reloder28] #5461825 12/07/14 01:31 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
T
TonyinVA Offline
Pro Tracker
Offline
Pro Tracker
T
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
Originally Posted By: Reloder28
Back in the 50's, Axis were brought to the YO Ranch for a WT/Axis crossbreeding experiment in an attempt to get larger framed WT antlers. While the original crossbreeding worked as intended, the next generation reverted to original pure genetics on both sides. The program was abandoned.


Reloader28,

Where is there any record of this that I can read if I would like to learn more about it? To be honest I admit to being skeptical.

What I have always read is the axis deer and the Whitetail are both members of the deer family but evolved from different branches of the family tree. The deer family has more then one original and came from more then one parent spices. Since axis deer did not evolve from the Whitetail they should be genetically incompatible with Whitetails, and cross breeding should be impossible. (The reason a white tail and mule deer can cross is the fact that the mule deer is in fact a hybrid itself that became a new spices.... the direct result of the cross breeding of the black tail and white tail .. so for this reason they can cross breed with both white tails and black tails. The mule deer is genetically half white tail half black tail so cross breeding is not only possible but common.) Any hybridization can only occur when the two spices are genetically compatible and have a command ancestor that they both evolved from.


Last edited by TonyinVA; 12/07/14 01:34 AM.
Re: Axis deer Crossbreeding [Re: Kobus] #5461859 12/07/14 02:03 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,518
Reloder28 Offline
Pro Tracker
Offline
Pro Tracker
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,518
I can attempt to find some corroborative text. May take me some time but I'll try.

I accept your skepticism. I haven't had any reason thus far to doubt the man. If I find out different I'll report that too.


[b][/b]
Re: Axis deer Crossbreeding [Re: Reloder28] #5461968 12/07/14 03:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,666
J
John Humbert Offline
Pro Tracker
Offline
Pro Tracker
J
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,666
Originally Posted By: Reloder28
Back in the 50's, Axis were brought to the YO Ranch for a WT/Axis crossbreeding experiment in an attempt to get larger framed WT antlers. While the original crossbreeding worked as intended, the next generation reverted to original pure genetics on both sides. The program was abandoned.


Reloder, I have no doubt you are relaying what you heard, but I think someone was "Storying" you.

Axis and whitetail cannot hybrid or produce viable offspring. And nothing "reverts" back to "pure" genetics, even with species that CAN hybridize.

Now that being said, I believe YO did do some programs - but I believe it was RED DEER bred to whitetail and/or axis. The WT was a flop, but I think there was some success with redstag/axis that ended up with a semi-viable hybrid called a Staxis. If memory serves me correctly.

Now nature is a funny thing. Sometimes crossbreeds from two species that "are not supposed to" be able to breed so occur. Usually these spontaneous abort before birth. On rare occasions they survive birth but are deformed or have serious issues that cause them to die quickly. On super rare occaisions some of these survive a bit - but they are NEVER viable. Meaning they are sterile or otherwise cannot reproduce.

BTW, I also heard the "staxis" was actually spotted Sika (Dybowski) crossed with red deer and just LOOKED like a axis cross. That's just a rumor because Sika and Red Deer do cross.

Last edited by John Humbert; 12/07/14 01:51 PM.
Re: Axis deer Crossbreeding [Re: Kobus] #5462459 12/07/14 03:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
T
TonyinVA Offline
Pro Tracker
Offline
Pro Tracker
T
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
John & Reloader28,

I have my doubts about any hybrids with axis deer outside their species ..so no whitetail x axis or Red Deer x Axis. One reason I find it difficult to believe is that on ranches in Texas today there are tons of places that have axis and whitetails on the same property and we don't see hybrids. And I don't think that artificial insemination was too widespread on exotics in the 1950's but maybe I am wrong. Similarly Red Deer and Axis did not evolve from a close enough common ancestor (same issue as with axis and whitetail) to make me think that there would be a viable breeding.

While I am not arrogant enough to say "NEVER" I have my doubts.

Last edited by TonyinVA; 12/07/14 03:34 PM.
Re: Axis deer Crossbreeding [Re: Kobus] #5462553 12/07/14 04:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,948
D
don k Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
D
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,948
We have had WT and Axis in this area for many years. I have never seen anything that looked like a cross. I am pretty sure that if AI worked on either one of them it would have been tried by now and the offspring would be on WB.

Re: Axis deer Crossbreeding [Re: Kobus] #5462769 12/07/14 06:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,666
J
John Humbert Offline
Pro Tracker
Offline
Pro Tracker
J
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,666
Yes Tony, that is what I was saying - axis/whitetail didn't/doesn't happen and I have never found any documentation that it ever has even been tried. Sure, I've seen bucks chase or mount cross species - heck I once saw a buck mount another buck - but nothing comes of it.

Believe me, I've researched this a lot since I am an axis nut. But the ONLY thing I've ever found - and was poorly documented - was the stuff about the "staxis".

The red deer, Sika, are all part of the elk family. They can cross bred fairly easily and lots of documented hybrids.

Re: Axis deer Crossbreeding [Re: Kobus] #5462999 12/07/14 08:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
T
TonyinVA Offline
Pro Tracker
Offline
Pro Tracker
T
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
Red Deer, Elk and Sika can all cross with one another..... well documented. Axis wont. So I think we agree!

Last edited by TonyinVA; 12/07/14 08:14 PM.
Re: Axis deer Crossbreeding [Re: Kobus] #5464262 12/08/14 03:35 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,376
N
nsmike Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
N
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,376
We all need to keep in mind that what happens in a small pen or zoo situation likely doesn't happen in the wild. With only one outside of Genus cross reported as surviving to adulthood they are highly unlikely.


for every stereotype there's a prototype don't be the prototype
Re: Axis deer Crossbreeding [Re: Kobus] #5464291 12/08/14 03:45 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
T
TonyinVA Offline
Pro Tracker
Offline
Pro Tracker
T
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
Originally Posted By: Kobus
Originally Posted By: Reloder28
Back in the 50's, Axis were brought to the YO Ranch for a WT/Axis crossbreeding experiment in an attempt to get larger framed WT antlers. [u][/u]While the original crossbreeding worked as intended, the next generation reverted to original pure genetics on both sides. The program was abandoned.

I've never heard this? Source? They belong to very different genus's. Also even so that's stupid.....Can't people just let species be for what they are?


Kobus,
Aren't you the one who started the thread and asked about Axis deer Crossbreeding? Was your purpose to start a dialogue so that you could get on your soap box about the evils off cross breeding and the need to keep all species "pure"?

Last edited by TonyinVA; 12/08/14 04:00 AM.
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

© 2004-2024 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3