While i agree partially with what you said I think we all need to realize that we are a super apex predator. We have killed hundreds of species off directly and indirectly. Third world countries(as a whole)only care about themselves surviving... Not the wildlife. Those that do are the ones managing their properties. A lot of them look at cats like we look at yotes.

If it wasn't for captive lion releases and breeding what do you think would happen to the lions of Africa? Maybe the same thing as the scimitar oryx or addax ?

Wait speaking of captive releases and exotics explain why the addax and scimitar aren't extinct?

Kinda my thought process. Btw, I haven't joined PETA , never hunted Africa, I hunt over a feeder in Texas. I have read Field and Stream, Playboy and Attaboy. I never have claimed to know much about African Hunting in general.

I am glad there are so many wise mean to school me and a few others in canned, caged, LF,HF hunting. It is just a formed thought from me and others. Not all of us agree nor should we. But if your crystal ball has all the answers, please tell me when I am going to hit the lotto.

Carry on...........

Conservation is fine and laudable. Hunters are and have always been the foremost conservationists.

But that is a different issue. Guy can pay 100K to shoot a pet lion. 100K can go to lion conservation. That doesnt make the "shoot" hunting. And,in a vacuum, the 100K to conservation is a good thing. But, maybe so/maybe no if it generates bad publicity. And, any way you slice it, don't see how anyone can deny raising pet lions for someone to kill and call it "hunting" is a pretty distasteful thing.

Don't play the stupid lotto.

How is your "shoot" hunting when all you are doing is sitting in a blind overlooking a magical machine at 70 yards that despenses corn at the same time everyday and the animals have it patterened? How was that deer "hunted" and not just "shot"? Many would argue you are shooting your pet deer. I am trying to hear justification, but nobody has offered a legitimate rational for it?

Might want to rethink what you criticize if you value your way of hunting, or all hunting will get a big magnifying glass on it someday and then what?

I'm not the one putting the big magnifying glass on hunting. It's the pen/canned shooters doing that. The "60 Minutes" piece wasn't done by hunters.

Problem with calling it all the same is that this actually plays right into the antis hands. So be careful what you wish for. It's not all the same.

P.S. Not that I have anything against feeders, but you don't have a clue how I hunt.

"Fair Chase" is a phrase that will lead to the destruction of hunting for all. There is no "fair chase" in the human predator's tool box unless we kill only turtles, snails and slugs.

We were equipped by God with a very weak body (in comparison to big game animals), and a pretty sharp mind. That brain is what guaranteed our survival. Using it correctly we become the premier apex predator.

Taking it out and playing with it causes us to lock up on what is "fair" to our prey. We are the only predator with that handicap. And relatively soon we'll be eating what's offered at grocery stores instead of what we used to be able to procure with our strong minds and weak bodies. And that grocery meat will be pretty expensive considering the unchecked numbers of predators standing between the pasture and the meat aisle.

You are right, and as long as you are within the confines of the law - I don't care or offer opinions. Just glad that you do hunt, or "shoot", or harvest, or whatever your legally prefered method is.

Using feeders or not by "approving" them you're conveniently ignoring the fact that there are as many folks who vehemently oppose them in both the hunting and anti hunting world, as oppose hf's.

That is simply not true. May make you feel better to say it, but it is not true.

There were several posts about the difference between what we're discussing and shooting deer over feeders as we're known to do here from time to time...

How many of you could step out of your blind while deer are at your feeder and then have those same deer come to you looking for food or companionship? That's the parallel to the hunting they were describing in the 60 minutes piece.

I have no problem hunting over a feeder, it's simply bait that's automated. But I wouldn't do it with "pet" deer. How many people fish with a bare hook? Snagging doesn't count.

Charlie

Pet is an adjective used to paint a very pointed opinion. How many of those pet lions do you think would really eat out of your hand.

Try to book a archery lion hunt let me know about the red tape and disclaimers and why you have a doubles right behind you


With out hunting value those lions will become texas yotes, thus extinct

Thats my point, you have no problem with "your" way....but like to throw stones at other peoples method. Trust me, go tell some bleeding heart animal lover that you hunt over an automated feeder. Try and justify it to them. Then tell them you share their opinion on not hunting lions that used to be at a petting zoo. See if they see the two any differently.....

anybody who thinks a feeder is "magical" and has some pavlovian effect that ALWAYS draws animals in has spent very, very, very little time actually doing the things they are claiming to talk about....

And to play devils advocate. In our current world the only way to get something to continue is for it to have MONITARY value. You can talk about intrinsic value of life all you want. But you want the Lion, elephant, snow leopard, tiger protected. You grow them to a huntible population and then sell very high end hunts. Show the locals the values others put on them for the hunts not for the body parts. then you have a CHANCE at them recovering.

So I'd assume by that logic, you have spent quite a bit of time hunting lions, since you are talking about how hunting them in such a way isnt right?

If y'all want to defend that crap, go ahead. I'm getting older, but I haven't lost all my common sense-yet.

Folks get so rooted in a position they sometimes end up defending the indefensible. That's when our credibility as a whole gets shot.

Some of you are forgetting if it's antis you're worried about then you're worrying about the wrong thing. The method of which the animal is killed is not their concern, the fact that you killed it is. They are antis, they don't care if it's a 8 year old adult black maned lion from the wildest pride in Tanzania or a bottle fed two year old with a name, the fact you killed it is the problem. You will not and can not justify what we do to an anti hunter but they use the supposed "canned" methods to sway the non Hunter in their direction while the hunters piss on each others boots about who is right. Talking to an anti Hunter is a waste of your time, talking to a non-hunter is the best way to show the truth before they see 60 Minutes and believe that that's the way it really is.

I'm turning 68 next week and this is just killing me and the Lion's as well. All kidding aside. The reason I had such a big fit was in the manner this is done. Basically the Lion kittens are bred for petting. People pay big bucks to go pet a lion. Lion get's too big and lets sell it to the outfitter to sell to someone for a canned the hunt and pay 100gs. I don't like it, I don't care for it, but that's ME.

I find it most interesting how a few can spin this and attack a few on here over their believes. So much for united as hunters and all that BS, correct? No one ever has to agree on a method of hunt. We seem to have split hairs here and calling each other out is just making it more interesting and degrading for some. I simply stated an opinion. I don't care for hog hunts with dogs either. Doesn't make me a bad person. I just don't see it as sporting for the dog. I hope I cleared that up more then made it worse. This topic is chasing rabbits for sure.

Just another mans 2 cents worth.

If the lion is bread in an enclosed environment and then turned loose in another enclosed environment, the animal in my opinion is considered livestock. I have no problems with them shooting the said lion. I personally don't consider it sporting or hunting, that does not believe I think its automatically a canned hunt or easy.

Actually I love hunting but there are a few animals I have no desire to kill. I could not shoot a lion, could not shoot an elephant, and could not bring myself to shoot a zebra. I have nothing against those that do. As someone else mentioned if not for their value as "game" the elephants and lions populations would probably be plummeting.

Also like someone else mentioned, why are some animals looked at differently than others? Legally wise, there shouldn't be any distinction. IMO they should all be considered livestock. Trapping wild animals and then shooting in an enclosure would be 100% wrong which is NOT what is happening here.

I'm also one of those guys that hunts over a feeder. Being from Louisiana we never used feeders. Those that tried always had 2 dozen coons waiting in the morning or had bears demolish their feeders within a few days. It was never worth it. But I've learned quickly in West Texas that if you have a small 640 acre lease and hunters on the properties around you are throwing corn, you better throw corn too if you want to see deer. I have yet to see deer come running to the feeder when it goes off.

In fact I've only seen one shooter deer at the feeder this year. He came out at 3:59 and feeder went off at 4:00. Before I could get him in my crosshairs the feeder went off, spooked him, and he took off never to be seen again.

This is my 6th year on the lease. I've yet to shoot a buck under the feeder. I've gotten pictures of shooters at night and have seen them on their trails during the day. But I've pretty much only seen 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 year old deer at the feeder while hunting. I've always caught the older ones sneaking around the feeder or hanging back in the thicket until the sun set.

Well, at least you're a rather prescient seasoned citizen.

I said that at one time. Then I tried hunting them. A horse they ain't.

I agree your missing out, pretty tasty too!!!



Ed

STOP THE PETTING Close down the petting zoo. Fine the petting zoo for selling Lions. Kill (I mean put to sleep) the cubs when they get to big, make coats from their hides for the poor, sell the meat. Send them to your house so you can hand feed. Raise our taxes so the United States can send $100,000,000.00 to feed the lion. Maybe a lion retirement center. How about extinction or confinement in a zoo cage.("Look Johnny there's the King of Beast") Stop Lion hunting everywhere.

Come on let's hear some solutions. PETA has one "Stop Hunting in any form Period"

P.S. Maybe issue a Hunters Trappers license. People shoot coyotes, raccoons, wolves and rabbits in a trap.

Best post I have read all evening.

Ed