A family member reported that taking spikes like the one that I took is not allowed on the large MLD property that he hunts in East Texas. That's rather interesting when you consider the TPWD is encouraging hunters to take them elsewhere. But then, perhaps the property is being managed to be a control for measuring the overall impact of antler restrictions in the region.

I do not understand this, wonder which level MLD they are on? Level 2 specifically targets does and spikes and 3 encourages it.

I'm seeing more bucks than ever on my place but I also have the high narrow genetic as well as the no brow tine genetic. I would be taking those deer without AR's. The flip side we do have some really nice wide racked bucks that would most likely not have gotten to where they are now without AR's.
So I do support them but there needs to be a way to thin the tall high racks and the no brow tine racks. Unfortunately I don't know enough about it to make a legitimate suggestion as to how to accomplish that without people going to back to whacking everything that walks.

I am not sure how much land you have to have, but mld 3 would allow this. It is a lot of work to reach that level from what I read. Maybe the state, will sometime in the future provide a program to allow culling of these narrow mature deer. I think it would have to be a hand in hand with a biologist or GW.

What's interesting to me is how many people say "you can't eat the horns" but still insist on shooting a small buck instead of a big doe.

Half of the "bigger buck" equation is the doe..

The greatest benefit of AR's is it helps to even the buck to doe ratio. Nature will weed out the weaker genes when competition for breeding doe gets fierce. Every buck gets half of it's genes from the mother which AR's can not address fully. All the offspring of a good buck have to come through a good doe too if they are to develop into something better. This variable of the doe is the advantage a high fence operation has over free ranging animals. Every successful management practice in growing superior animals needs to know the linage of all their breeding animals.

The whole premise of the Antler Restrictions is to help weed out what is considered to be "inferior" bucks while allowing more bucks reach maturity. The results of the regulation show up first in the general population make-up of buck to doe ratio. From that point forward (outside of the high fence operations) Nature takes over and dictates what the future holds. "High and tight" might be more natural for some environments like thick forest while wider racks would be more prevalent in more open terrain.

The real question is "since we hold the keys" do we drive this creature to the extremes of it's genetics with or without natures good guidance.

But doesn't require it...first two levels are about ratio and CC. Think about the data

My 2 cents:

I've always believed the main goal of antler restrictions was to protect the 1.5 and 2.5 fork antlered deer to allow them to reach an older age class. Do I think it is working, yes.

I'm my opinion spikes are a complicated subject and unfortunately a touchy subject for some hunters on either side of the argument. In my opinion the ability to kill spikes was added to AR soley for the purpose of getting hunters to "buy in". If it had been left out I think the TPWD would have been over run with hunters had AR said no bucks unless they are over 13 inches period.

As far as spikes go, we all know there are three factors that affect antler growth/size: age, nutrition, and genetics. By far and away the one we can absolutely do the least about is genetics. Especially on a low fence property. Those shooting spikes in an attempt to improve genetics on a low fence I would venture to say are having little to no effect unless you've got all your neighbors on the surrounding 10 to 20 thousand acres killing every spike they see. Even then I'd argue your positive effect on the genetic potential of your bucks is de minimus at best. 85% of immature bucks disburse from the area they were born and travel up to many miles from their original home. So all the spikes your neighbors let walk last year end up on your property when they are 2.5 or 3.5.

In addition to being "genetically inferior" consider for a moment all the environmental factors that any one of which could lead to a 1.5 year old buck having spiked antlers: as a fawn he was born late, in June, July, August, or even Septemper, drought causing poor habitat (we've had a few of those), illness himself or his mother, being the male fawn of a subordinate doe and not a dominate doe, being a twin or triplet and competing for nutrition, being born in an area with a population higher than the carrying capacity, minor injury, born in an area with high pressure year round causing more stress on the herd, I'm sure you can think of many more reasons.

This may be a stupid analogy but I've always thought of shooting spikes as the same as telling an NBA coach he had to draft his team from 6 year olds. Essentially that's what we're doing, we're making a management decision about the genetic potential of an animal while it's still a child completely disregarding any and all environemtal factors that may have led to the product we're viewing at 1.5 years of age. Not to mention a 1.5 old bucks body could care less about what's on his head, its primary concern is growing muscle, tissue, and bone and that process dosent stop until he's past 3.5 years of age.

Shoot spikes don't shoot spikes. We all get to choose, I just feel what most view as the greatest benefit of removing spikes from the hurd in reality has very little effect on the genetics on a property. Especially a low fenced property.

High fenced, intensely managed, supplimentaly feed deer are a different story!

Some areas with low density don't need to remove does. It's a lot more common than you might think. Overharvest can become a bigger problem.

I think a lot to do with yearling spikes is what the range conditions were, his mothers milk or lack of it and when he was born. I have what looks to have been a yearling spike with about 4" spikes that got into a 18 acre trap where I keep my Ibex breeder males. He will get to eat fairly good and we shall see what he looks like this year. Oh and he jumped in from a LF so he was not pampered last year.