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#5439745 - 11/23/14 10:07 PM Pump or semi for flooded timber hunt?
Arbor Guy Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 09/14/14
Posts: 113
'm Heading to east texas to hunt flooded timber. We will not be in a blind and out always from our boat. Total different hunt than I'm used to. Lots of mud. Is it best to leave the semi at home for this type of hunt?

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#5439750 - 11/23/14 10:09 PM Re: Pump or semi for flooded timber hunt? [Re: Arbor Guy]
Jacob645 Offline


Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1415
Loc: Nacogdoches, TX
I think you'll be fine.

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#5439753 - 11/23/14 10:10 PM Re: Pump or semi for flooded timber hunt? [Re: Arbor Guy]
T Bone Online   happy
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/20/09
Posts: 6953
Loc: Up in the cheap seats..
Leave it in a soft case until you get there..??
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Originally Posted By: bill oxner
I love happy endings.

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#5439761 - 11/23/14 10:14 PM Re: Pump or semi for flooded timber hunt? [Re: Arbor Guy]
bodydub Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 11/12/13
Posts: 201
Loc: VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER.......
Which one shoots straighter?.?.?.

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#5439777 - 11/23/14 10:21 PM Re: Pump or semi for flooded timber hunt? [Re: Arbor Guy]
Aggieduck Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 2285
Loc: TX
Semi should be fine. So long as it's reliable on your other hunts
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#5439797 - 11/23/14 10:29 PM Re: Pump or semi for flooded timber hunt? [Re: Arbor Guy]
garrett Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 01/19/06
Posts: 10287
O/U would be best, very few mechanical failures are even possible. If I'm lucky enough to hunt a good flooded timber hole I wanna know my gun goes boom
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Dear Ag2015, please assume this post is a joke and is not to be taken serious

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#5439804 - 11/23/14 10:33 PM Re: Pump or semi for flooded timber hunt? [Re: Arbor Guy]
Jacob645 Offline


Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1415
Loc: Nacogdoches, TX
What are y'all doing to your guns??

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#5439862 - 11/23/14 10:51 PM Re: Pump or semi for flooded timber hunt? [Re: Arbor Guy]
Arbor Guy Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 09/14/14
Posts: 113
Personally I've never had any of my guns fail. I baby them...still hear my pop telling me about mud getting in the barrel and the barrel splitting! I just hear that the conditions I'm heading to are the ones that will gum up and action of you happen to drop the gun. Just curious if anyone has experience with that.

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#5439874 - 11/23/14 11:08 PM Re: Pump or semi for flooded timber hunt? [Re: Arbor Guy]
TJ_Hughes21 Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 01/03/07
Posts: 350
I shoot a nova and dropped it in the water 3 times last season prior to legal shooting time and never once did I have a problem
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#5439963 - 11/24/14 04:38 AM Re: Pump or semi for flooded timber hunt? [Re: Arbor Guy]
_Scooter_ Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 1661
Loc: NoDux, Texas
Okay, while either gun would be fine... this is what I choose to do. I own an 835 Ulti-mag and a Maxus. When I kayak hunt, or go on mud slogs that I know are going to be brutal, I tend to leave the Maxus at home. Don't get me wrong, my Maxus handles the dirt and water perfectly fine, but I still choose to use the pump more often than not solely because it was a cheaper gun and if some tragedy would happen- the replacement value is a LOT cheaper.

Both guns perform the same, and I don't think that either one is "tougher" than the other or more or less accurate. I just use the "beater gun" for "beater hunts"
_________________________
Wasn't born in Texas, but I got there as fast as I could.

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#5440256 - 11/24/14 09:02 AM Re: Pump or semi for flooded timber hunt? [Re: Jacob645]
aerangis Offline
Tracker

Registered: 09/05/08
Posts: 715
Loc: Nunya
Originally Posted By: Jacob645
What are y'all doing to your guns??


In flooded timber?

....... the short list would be stepping in stump holes, tripping and/or climbing over submerged logs, walking through (relatively) deep water, leaning against a 50 foot tall dead tree while standing in waist deep water and having that tree uproot from the bottom, fall over in an explosion of mud and water (and crapped pants), walking in varying depths of mud, and getting said mud in every possible place in and on a shotgun, equipment, and clothing. I've used and seen shotguns used (unloaded of course) to haul myself and/or extricate hunting partners out of mud in flooded timber, swamps, and flooded bottomland more times than I can remember. If you scout and hunt often enough, it's going to happen.

Flooded timber is great habitat for puddle ducks, but my experience is it can be one of the more challenging ecological niches to hunt. If the area is in a flood plain, creek bottom, or lower basin of a river bottom, it will typically have sediment dams on the lee side of trees, slack water islands containing deep mud, and areas with slow-to-no appreciable water flow heavily silted. Step in a submerged stump hole once occupied by a 200+ year old pecan or bottomland hardwood, you can easily find yourself in water and mud over your head. If it comes down to it, you WILL use your shotgun as a walking stick, lay across it to keep from sinking, or use it in some form or fashion that will fill it with water and mud. I've seen it and done it, numerous times, both while scouting new terrain and while hunting.

To answer your question regarding shotguns, I've hunted flooded timber and bottomland long enough to know what works for me. My first preference is an auto with a long recoil or inertia action such as the new/old A5, Vinci, SBE, M2, Stoeger M3000, etc. The caveat is I've had and have seen numerous issues over the years with mud and water getting into the action and causing problems in auto gas operated shotguns and to a lesser degree, auto inertia and rarely, pump shotguns. These problems in auto's were manifested by FTE, FTF, and/or sluggish performance where the bolt would cycle and eject the spent shotshell but not return to battery. If you're comfortable field stripping a shotgun to clean it if the need arises, stick with an auto.

Second choice would be a pump. Nova, SuperNova, BPS, 870, pick your poison.

Third choice (if there were no other options), sell my gas operated shotgun and get a good intertia action auto. Granted, some folks swear by a gas operated shotgun and that's fine and dandy if you're on an armchair hunt, sitting in a blind or duckboat, or hunt infrequently, but slogging through water and mud with a gas operated shotgun is asking for trouble. I've seen shotguns go tits up many, many times. All kinds, all manufacturers, at all price points. Mud and water being one of the primary causes.

...my $.02


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#5440416 - 11/24/14 10:09 AM Re: Pump or semi for flooded timber hunt? [Re: Arbor Guy]
Going Green Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 08/20/13
Posts: 383
Loc: Camp David
Take care of your guns, they'll take care of you. Nothing wrong with an auto gas gun, the manufacturer just assumes you will actually clean and maintain your firearm at regular intervals. Nothing is fail-proof. Pack them with enough peanut butter and they'll all fail. I love it when waterfowlers say gas guns aren't made for the harsh elements and can't stand up to the "abuse". The AK- regarded as the most reliable gun ever built, is a gas gun. The inertia vs. gas debate seems to continue to limp on, although it should have died with the 1100. I just finished cleaning an M2 for buddy because it was malfunctioning on him. I would promise that it's been less than year since cleaned last and less than 200 shells through it because I'm usually with him most of the hunts it goes on. Given the choice between my old A5, 870, and my Maxus, I'll take the Maxus everytime- not because of how the action is run, but because I like it best and shoot it well. Take whichever gun you like best and put it in a soft floating case to get to your spot, and then hunt. If you go in the drink, the soft case provides alot of extra floatation. Don't over think it. This 2014, theres no need to buy into shotgun marketing from 1970.
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#5440609 - 11/24/14 12:04 PM Re: Pump or semi for flooded timber hunt? [Re: Arbor Guy]
aerangis Offline
Tracker

Registered: 09/05/08
Posts: 715
Loc: Nunya
When we can hunt ducks with an AK, then AK's will be relevant. Until then, we're stuck with shotguns.

You're right about one thing, the inertia vs gas debate HAS been beaten to death, with the consensus being that gas operated shotguns pale in comparison to inertia shotguns both in reliability and durability. Hence the reason I have yet to hunt with a high volume Argentine dove or NA/SA duck outfitter that uses gas guns exclusively for customer rentals.

Aside from personal experiences, there's a ton of reliable research and online references that have put this issue to rest. Here's one that comes to mind...

http://randywakeman.com/Most_Reliable_Autoloading_Shotgun.htm

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#5440697 - 11/24/14 12:46 PM Re: Pump or semi for flooded timber hunt? [Re: Arbor Guy]
dogcatcher Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 77387
Loc: Abilene or on the road...
My choice is a pump, plain old Rem 870. We carried them in Vietnam and never had a failure, and the literally went through hell with mud, sand, rain, monsoons, swamps, jungles etc.. up
_________________________
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back.
"Illegitimus non carborundum est"

_______ Old style calls for today's outdoorsman_________

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#5440968 - 11/24/14 03:17 PM Re: Pump or semi for flooded timber hunt? [Re: aerangis]
Going Green Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 08/20/13
Posts: 383
Loc: Camp David
Originally Posted By: aerangis
When we can hunt ducks with an AK, then AK's will be relevant. Until then, we're stuck with shotguns.


You can. It's called a Saiga 12. Guys use them for conservation snow goose season. Three round mags seem to be made of unobtanium, so ducks may be challenging, but I suppose it could be done if you plug the mag. http://youtu.be/2iBcX4YiQhM

Originally Posted By: aerangis
You're right about one thing, the inertia vs gas debate HAS been beaten to death, with the consensus being that gas operated shotguns pale in comparison to inertia shotguns both in reliability and durability. Hence the reason I have yet to hunt with a high volume Argentine dove or NA/SA duck outfitter that uses gas guns exclusively for customer rentals.

Aside from personal experiences, there's a ton of reliable research and online references that have put this issue to rest. Here's one that comes to mind...

http://randywakeman.com/Most_Reliable_Autoloading_Shotgun.htm


Speaking of relevancy, when's the last time you took your 20ga montefeltro into the swamp and shot 1200rds of 7/8oz #7 1/2 lead shot at ducks? Now run back to google and find me a recent, scientific study comparing both platforms that supports your claim that gas guns pale in comparison to inertia in terms of both reliability and durability. Opinions of guides on pro-form deals do not scientific method make.
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