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#5433180 - 11/20/14 10:01 AM Vortex Viper HSLR 4-16x44 Won't Zero
LandPirate Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 10889
Loc: Buda
As many know, I just bought a Weatherby Lazerguard in 257 Wby Mag from Cabela's. After hearing all the ravings about Vortex optics, I thought I'd give a try. I've always been Leupold loyal and never had any issues. I mounted the scope to the rifle with Leupold base and rings, everything torqued to spec.

Yesterday I set a target at 100 yards, set the scope to 16x so I can see my impacts, set the side focus/parallax to 100 yards and adjusted the rear eyepiece focus.

Using Weatherby ammo 100g Spitzer, I fired my first shot-3" low, 3" left. Slowly fired 2 additional rounds to check for grouping. There was none. I ended up firing a total of 10 rounds, all of which scattered randomly around the bullseye, with no grouping what-so-ever.

I checked the trigger guard screws on the rifle-They're good. Re-checked the rings and base. They're good and tight.

At this point I'm suspect of the scope. Either it can't hold zero or there's a major issue with parallax.

A little background on my shooting skills-I've shot rifles may whole life and am very confident with them. I spent nearly 8 years as a police sniper. I'm very confident in my fundamentals and form.

Any input is greatly appreciated. I've loaded the rifle in the car and plan to return to Cabela's later. I cannot decide if I'm going to exchange the scope for another identical scope or go back to Leupold. Let's hear some thoughts please.
_________________________
Mike
Buda, Tx
Hunt near Freer

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#5433505 - 11/20/14 12:25 PM Re: Vortex Viper HSLR 4-16x44 Won't Zero [Re: LandPirate]
blackcoal Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 7563
Loc: 60 Mi North of DFW
thoughts ?? If I had driven X brand of trucks all my life and been happy with that brand, then bought a different brand because some women liked the seat warmers and it left me stranded the first week, I would not think of returning to get another. I would go back to the brand that served me well in the past. As you first state, you switched because of all the raving you heard about Vortex.

I believe if you switched carry guns on the advice of others, had jams constantly with the new pistol, then no matter what others said you would return to your solid, dependable, trust worthy Glock.

Buy a Leupy and have a lot of good hunts feeling confident when you start the trip. JMO
_________________________
The Greatest Enemy of knowledge is not ignorance,
it is the illusion of knowledge.--Stephen Hawking

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#5433538 - 11/20/14 12:37 PM Re: Vortex Viper HSLR 4-16x44 Won't Zero [Re: LandPirate]
redchevy Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 23348
Loc: Texas
Shot nothing but Leupolds my whole life with 1 cheap simmons in the mix. I put the same scope you have on my last rifle purchase and couldn't be happier.

I'd try another of the same scope and just see if it works. If still a no go can always do something different.
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#5433614 - 11/20/14 01:07 PM Re: Vortex Viper HSLR 4-16x44 Won't Zero [Re: LandPirate]
603Country Online   content
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 07/03/12
Posts: 4867
Loc: Central Texas
Like Landpirate, I've been a Leupold guy for decades. Bought a Vortex Viper 4-16 PST last year. It has been a good scope, though I really don't think the glass is as good as Leupold VX-3 glass. I have to admit that I do like it. For a while I considered buying another Leupold to replace the Vortex, but after continuing to use the scope, I decided that the glass issue isn't that big a deal. Also, I worried just a bit about how the MRAD reticle would do in very dim light. Would I be able to see it and use it? Yes, I can see it just fine, even in very dim light. And, it's illuminated, though it's too bright at high magnification, but If I dial the scope to 4 or 6 power it is usable, so I'm ok with that too now. And FFP , which I also wondered if I'd like, is useful and will be much more useful as I get more experienced with it.

So, overall, it was worth the money. I'll keep it.

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#5433632 - 11/20/14 01:12 PM Re: Vortex Viper HSLR 4-16x44 Won't Zero [Re: LandPirate]
BigPig Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 08/27/09
Posts: 9478
Loc: Forney, Tx
Is the scope walking? Have you lapped the rings? I would try that first, if that doesn't help then I would return the scope. Vortex is good quality and has a lifetime warranty, which is what sold me on my PST. Also, I would return the scope and get in touch with Vortex, they give a 35% DISCOUNT off their MSRP to MIL/LEO. I saved me over $350 on my PST.
_________________________
Originally Posted By: bill oxner
Ever spit it out rather than swallow it?

Originally Posted By: pegasaurus
Enjoy it while you can. One day you might be complaining about NOT getting random pop-ups in the morning. grin

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#5433638 - 11/20/14 01:14 PM Re: Vortex Viper HSLR 4-16x44 Won't Zero [Re: LandPirate]
BigPig Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 08/27/09
Posts: 9478
Loc: Forney, Tx
I would also try another brand of ammo and different bullet. My 308 was doing the same thing, turns out it hated Winchester 168g silver tips, but love Federal 168g match ammo. It couldn't keep a 2 inch group at 50yds, now it's doing a 2 inch 5 shot group at 300
_________________________
Originally Posted By: bill oxner
Ever spit it out rather than swallow it?

Originally Posted By: pegasaurus
Enjoy it while you can. One day you might be complaining about NOT getting random pop-ups in the morning. grin

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#5433785 - 11/20/14 02:34 PM Re: Vortex Viper HSLR 4-16x44 Won't Zero [Re: LandPirate]
LandPirate Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 10889
Loc: Buda
I see no evidence of the scope walking. And I did not lap the rings.

Weatherby tests show that they achieve best accuracy with this rifle using the 100g Hornady and Nosler bullets. Independent reports to me indicate that the 100g Spitzer (Norma) is nearly as accurate out the same rifle. So I'm less inclined to believe that it's the ammo.
_________________________
Mike
Buda, Tx
Hunt near Freer

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#5433912 - 11/20/14 03:34 PM Re: Vortex Viper HSLR 4-16x44 Won't Zero [Re: LandPirate]
redchevy Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 23348
Loc: Texas
Hope you get it figured out LP it sucks to have a new toy not function.
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#5434207 - 11/20/14 06:12 PM Re: Vortex Viper HSLR 4-16x44 Won't Zero [Re: LandPirate]
603Country Online   content
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 07/03/12
Posts: 4867
Loc: Central Texas
LandPirate, a couple years ago I bought a new 223 (Ruger Hawkeye) and put a Bushnell 4-12 on it. It shot real good, but I hadn't finished working up loads when I decided to step up in scope quality. So I did. Mounted it, zeroed it, and went back to working up groups. I must've shot up a 150 rounds and got exactly NOWHERE. Finally swapped the scope back to the inexpensive Bushnell and it shot great. Dang. Went and got a real good scope and all is well. So...till you swap out the scope, you won't know for sure if it's the gun, the loads, or the scope. I doubt that the problem is the rifle.

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#5434526 - 11/20/14 09:24 PM Re: Vortex Viper HSLR 4-16x44 Won't Zero [Re: LandPirate]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Before you start swapping scopes.

Is this a brand new rifle? If so, did you clean all the oil out of it? Do you have any other ammo to try?

Usually when I see this happening it is a rifle or ammo problem. Not a scope problem, especially as good as scopes are. Heck rifles, too, for that matter. But some chamberings and twists don't like a particular ammo. Sire reviews said the rifle shot that ammo in a test, bit that was a different rifle, not THIS particular rifle. Just to be clear, it would not group without adjusting windage and elevation, correct? So if you had a low or high, or left or right impact, saw it, but shot a follow up shot anyway?
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#5434587 - 11/20/14 09:50 PM Re: Vortex Viper HSLR 4-16x44 Won't Zero [Re: LandPirate]
LandPirate Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 10889
Loc: Buda
Fireman, you're correct. Fired 10 rounds, no adjustment, sprayed all over. I mean 5" around the bull, 360 degrees. No grouping what so ever. Yes, this is a brand new rifle, scope, base, rings, ammo. Yes, I thoroughly cleaned the bore prior to shooting. I intended to clean it every 3-5 rounds through a box of shells. I will clean the bore again before shooting again.

I've rifles that didn't like a particular ammo/bullet but they normally give you some sort of grouping. I got no grouping. One shot might be at 7 o'clock and the next at 2 o'clock.

I took the rifle back to Cabela's and exchanged the scope for a Leupold VX-3 4.5-14x40 CDS. Won't get to shoot again until Saturday, weather permitting. I can tell you that I like the Leupy better. The true test will come Sat. I'll post results.
_________________________
Mike
Buda, Tx
Hunt near Freer

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#5434601 - 11/20/14 09:57 PM Re: Vortex Viper HSLR 4-16x44 Won't Zero [Re: LandPirate]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Well if you like it better, that is all that matters.

Even though you got out of the Vortex, if it turns out to be the Vortex's fault, I respectfully ask that you tell them what happened. I am sure they will care and they will run down the problem for future buyers.

I look forward to finding out what happens.
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#5434756 - 11/21/14 03:10 AM Re: Vortex Viper HSLR 4-16x44 Won't Zero [Re: LandPirate]
TexasPI Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 336
Loc: Dallas
If the scope change doesn't help.....definitely try some different ammo. Not too long ago I bought a Weatherby Vanguard Series 2 in 6.5 Creedmoor, and mounted a Vortex Viper 4-16x44 on it (I did lap the rings and properly torqued the ring and action screws). After bore sighting, I shot 1 shot....good elevation, but 1.75" left. Adjusted the scope and then proceeded to stack the next three shots in a 3/8" group. I was pleased to say the least. This was with the Hornady factory 120gr A-max ammo, and cleaning between each shot as recommended by Weatherby. I then switched to Hornady superperformance ammo in the 129gr SST.......WOW!! First shot was 1.5" high and left 10 o'clock, second shot 1.5" right 3 o'clock.....third shot 1.5" low and right 5 o'clock.....4th shot 1" low 6 o'clock.......5th shot 1/2" high 12 o'clock!! Looked like I was patterning a shotgun.
I switched back to the 120gr ammo and produced a 3/4" 4 shot group. I later changed stocks and did some more shooting. Same results.....the 129gr scattered like crazy, then switched back to the 120's and shot a 6 shot group that measured 11/16".
Having been at this for many many years, I am very aware that guns can be a little picky about what they like to shoot, but I don't recall ever seeing this drastic of an accuracy difference between two bullets that are only 9 grains apart in weight, and both within the window that the rifle's rate of twist should shoot.
Since I have a good stockpile of 129 SST bullets, I am looking forward to doing some load testing and see if I can get them to shoot a lot better than the factory offering.

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#5434765 - 11/21/14 04:19 AM Re: Vortex Viper HSLR 4-16x44 Won't Zero [Re: LandPirate]
jdk1985 Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 08/15/11
Posts: 11701
Loc: Waco, TX
Yeah, my first instinct would have been that it was a gun / ammo problem... not a scope problem. Let us know if the new leupold straightens things out.

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#5434950 - 11/21/14 08:05 AM Re: Vortex Viper HSLR 4-16x44 Won't Zero [Re: LandPirate]
603Country Online   content
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 07/03/12
Posts: 4867
Loc: Central Texas
Well, my first thought (and second and third...) was that my problem was gun or ammo. Note that I said I wasted maybe 150 rounds of reloads. In that time I also got a new stock for the rifle. It would have been so easy to just swap out the scope, but I didn't. Surely the problem can't be a brand new scope, is what I was thinking. Well, I was thinking wrong. It was the scope. Brand new Nikon Monarch 4-16.

I see that Landpirate got a new scope. I hope he'll come back and tell us what the problem was.

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