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#5431050 - 11/19/14 09:57 AM The Cull Debate ( I now, I know Sorry)
Ricochet83 Offline
Tracker

Registered: 10/03/13
Posts: 602
Loc: Sugar Land
I know this is a everyone is different type debate but i am just curious as to see what some of the more management minded hunters are doing. So for sake of argument lets say you owned your property and it was 500 acres with little to know hunting pressure on the surrounding properties. You have alot of bucks that frequent your feeders that you have on camera and your overall herd numbers are good.. You have been there for 3 years and know your deer. If you were going to start culling out some of your weaker genes on the property to help the overall heard and your mature bucks. What kind of cull management would you implememnt.
i.e 3.5 year old 7's or less
4.5 year old 8's?
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#5431081 - 11/19/14 10:08 AM Re: The Cull Debate ( I now, I know Sorry) [Re: Ricochet83]
stxranchman Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi

Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 52092
First I would get a survey to what the ratios are and then how the CC is. Take care of the ratio or doe problem first then worry about bucks. A lot of "cull" issues will solve themselves with better nutrition from shooting does down to a good ratio. Allowing bucks to get more age on them also helps to see what you have.
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#5431084 - 11/19/14 10:09 AM Re: The Cull Debate ( I now, I know Sorry) [Re: stxranchman]
BOBO the Clown Offline
decoy

Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 41125
Loc: Metroplex
Originally Posted By: stxranchman
First I would get a survey to what the ratios are and then how the CC is. Take care of the ratio or doe problem first then worry about bucks. A lot of "cull" issues will solve themselves with better nutrition from shooting does down to a good ratio. Allowing bucks to get more age on them also helps to see what you have.


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#5431090 - 11/19/14 10:12 AM Re: The Cull Debate ( I now, I know Sorry) [Re: Ricochet83]
banderabound Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 03/30/14
Posts: 347
Loc: Bandera, TX
What is a healthy doe:buck?

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#5431103 - 11/19/14 10:16 AM Re: The Cull Debate ( I now, I know Sorry) [Re: Ricochet83]
Ricochet83 Offline
Tracker

Registered: 10/03/13
Posts: 602
Loc: Sugar Land
I believe the doe:buck ratio veries depending on habitat, area and several other factors.
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#5431133 - 11/19/14 10:27 AM Re: The Cull Debate ( I now, I know Sorry) [Re: Ricochet83]
sig226fan (Rguns.com) Offline
duck & cover

Registered: 11/21/05
Posts: 30572
Loc: Hickory Creek, Fannin Co. Texa...
Originally Posted By: Ricochet83
I believe the doe:buck ratio veries depending on habitat, area and several other factors.


Exactly, too many people think EVERYwhere is too heavy in Doe pop, and it's not; working toward a balance is fine, but I see people get on a new place and instantly start shooting doe, with no idea what is there, what's been done before, etc. Too many people read an article, or a website, or see a tv show, and instantly start killing every doe.
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#5431198 - 11/19/14 10:55 AM Re: The Cull Debate ( I now, I know Sorry) [Re: Ricochet83]
TXPride Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 1876
Loc: Lost
In my opinion...

It would be tough to manage 500 acres to trophy deer, and "culling" a couple a year probably won't make much of a difference.

I'd just shoot a few does and only mature bucks.

If there is little hunting pressure around, chances are your D:B is fine because it works itself out naturally, and you'll get nice deer by letting the dumb young ones grow.


Edited by TXPride (11/19/14 10:56 AM)
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#5431208 - 11/19/14 11:04 AM Re: The Cull Debate ( I now, I know Sorry) [Re: Ricochet83]
tShawnB Offline
Tracker

Registered: 09/19/12
Posts: 971
Loc: Rolling Plains
Don't overthink it on 500 acres. Keep you does in check and shoot anything 8 points or less that's 3.5 years old. Keep a log of the deer you see on a daily basis and you can get a rough figure of buck to doe and also types of bucks your seeing. If you have little or no hunting pressure and have some cover on your place with water, you can hold deer by putting in some food plots or implementing year around feeding and on 500 acres, you could put 1 large protein feeder in the middle of the place and have it covered and if you enjoy spending money and want to go big, you could put one on all 4 corners too. Who knows, in 5 or 6 years depending on where your at, it could all pay off.
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#5431209 - 11/19/14 11:04 AM Re: The Cull Debate ( I now, I know Sorry) [Re: sig226fan (Rguns.com)]
txshntr Online   content
T-Rex Arms

Registered: 09/24/10
Posts: 33685
Loc: Mansfield, Texas
Originally Posted By: sig226fan (Rguns.com)
Originally Posted By: Ricochet83
I believe the doe:buck ratio veries depending on habitat, area and several other factors.


Exactly, too many people think EVERYwhere is too heavy in Doe pop, and it's not; working toward a balance is fine, but I see people get on a new place and instantly start shooting doe, with no idea what is there, what's been done before, etc. Too many people read an article, or a website, or see a tv show, and instantly start killing every doe.


And too many people rely solely on what comes to their feeder to give them an idea of what the land is holding.
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#5431210 - 11/19/14 11:04 AM Re: The Cull Debate ( I now, I know Sorry) [Re: Ricochet83]
Ricochet83 Offline
Tracker

Registered: 10/03/13
Posts: 602
Loc: Sugar Land
how does everyone feel about missing brow tines whether it be one or both and not due to injury? would you cull some of those out if is appears to be a pretty dominant trait on your place?
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#5431212 - 11/19/14 11:06 AM Re: The Cull Debate ( I now, I know Sorry) [Re: Ricochet83]
Ricochet83 Offline
Tracker

Registered: 10/03/13
Posts: 602
Loc: Sugar Land
I agree txshntr the feeders are not good places to try to get good counts and so forth they are a tool but you should not solely rely on what you see there. i personally am thinking in August of 15 spending about a week or so and doing a spotlight survey how do you feel about that line of counting? Helicopters are just to expensive ha ha ha
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#5431220 - 11/19/14 11:09 AM Re: The Cull Debate ( I now, I know Sorry) [Re: Ricochet83]
Ricochet83 Offline
Tracker

Registered: 10/03/13
Posts: 602
Loc: Sugar Land
currently we have a 30 acre winter oats plot that is poping TShawn and we have agreed on doing a protein feeder in the center of the property during the offseason as well as year round feeding on the feeders that are in proximity to the boundaries of the property.


Edited by Ricochet83 (11/19/14 11:10 AM)
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#5431221 - 11/19/14 11:10 AM Re: The Cull Debate ( I now, I know Sorry) [Re: Ricochet83]
Ricochet83 Offline
Tracker

Registered: 10/03/13
Posts: 602
Loc: Sugar Land
As well as 2 tanks and are considering putting in a 3rd this offseason as well.
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#5431240 - 11/19/14 11:18 AM Re: The Cull Debate ( I now, I know Sorry) [Re: sig226fan (Rguns.com)]
QuitShootinYoungBucks Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/01/12
Posts: 6491
Loc: Lubbock, TX
Originally Posted By: sig226fan (Rguns.com)
Originally Posted By: Ricochet83
I believe the doe:buck ratio veries depending on habitat, area and several other factors.


Exactly, too many people think EVERYwhere is too heavy in Doe pop, and it's not; working toward a balance is fine, but I see people get on a new place and instantly start shooting doe, with no idea what is there, what's been done before, etc. Too many people read an article, or a website, or see a tv show, and instantly start killing every doe.


I don't understand what impact those variables have on the ratio. Total numbers, yes, but shouldn't the ratio should be fairly static, somewhere between 1:1 and 2:1?

We are in the exact situation described by the OP except that without a doubt we have too many deer, and too many does. Our neighbors don't hunt much or if they do, they don't take many deer and especially not enough does. Figure on the 3000 acres in our near vicinity there are probably 30 deer being harvested, and it may be less than that.

Last year I shot four does and one mature buck. The year before, one cull (6pt 3.5 yr old), one spike and three does. Year before that, I think was one spike and four does. One year in there somewhere I took five does.

So far this year we've taken two mature bucks, one spike, and five does.
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#5431251 - 11/19/14 11:20 AM Re: The Cull Debate ( I now, I know Sorry) [Re: Ricochet83]
txshntr Online   content
T-Rex Arms

Registered: 09/24/10
Posts: 33685
Loc: Mansfield, Texas
Originally Posted By: Ricochet83
how does everyone feel about missing brow tines whether it be one or both and not due to injury? would you cull some of those out if is appears to be a pretty dominant trait on your place?


We take out every "framed" deer that doesn't have brow tines. We also take out all "crab clawed" bucks and 3.5yo or older that is under 8 points.

Without knowing the herd you are working with, it is difficult to say exactly what you should do. Biggest issue is determining the structure of the herd: ratio, population, CC, age structure, etc. All before you start culling. Then you need to determine how many tags you have and how many deer you can actually take out.

Also, it will depend on how serious about the management side you want to get. With non-hunting neighbors, it could help or hurt. The neighbors deer will be in and out of your place, so determining numbers is going to be difficult, but you can still get an idea. I like the spotlight surveys combined with TC at chum piles and visual sightings. Nothing is perfect, but it can be done.

All culling is going to do is determine which deer you allow to reach maturity and which ones you choose to feed. Taking a few bucks off the place a year isn't going to do much one way or the other for most places. Even with a strict management policy, you will not eliminate certain traits from the herd. On our place, we have shot every crab claw that we have seen for the last 20 years and I have a garage full of them. We have already killed one this year and I know of three others that will die if they step out.

Making your place more enticing and being able to have more mature bucks is going to make a bigger difference than management unless you get serious and really start making an impact. Some culling programs set a standard for each age class, the standard being based on the score of the buck. Say 105" for 2.5, 115 for 3.5, 125 for 4.5, etc. Others leave all framed deer alone and only take deer that show inferior traits such as 7 points or less, no brows, crab claws, etc.

Again, it will be based on what your end goal is and what limitations you are working within. Good luck up
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