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#5426767 - 11/17/14 03:36 PM Guys who shoot LR I need some help...
Deerhunter61 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 5555
Loc: DFW
Guys,

I went shooting this past Friday and after missing a couple of times at 900 I dropped down and shot at the 500 silhouette and found that I was shooting 3-4 inches high...ugh! So after realizing it I made some adjustments and took it out to 1k but I'm very frustrated! What can cause this? Can anyone provide a list of the variables and provide it in the order that I need to check them?

I have a Chrony Chronograph and am wondering if it's my reloads or if perhaps I'm just not getting a true reading on MV...

As for my loads...I've been pondering this and I've been consistent as far as I can think...

How much does the brass being the exact same length effect MV?

The toughest part of LR shooting to me are the variables!!! There seem to be more with LR shooting than there are in golf!

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#5426793 - 11/17/14 03:45 PM Re: Guys who shoot LR I need some help... [Re: Deerhunter61]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Did you check zero at 100 first, or cold bore 500 first?

Scope base, and rings tight?

Turrets tight to the scope?

What's the cartridge and how many rounds have been down the barrel?

Previous 500 yard DOPE, was it on virgin brass or brass FL sized with a .003" bump on the shoulder?

Was this brass virgin or FL sized with a .003" bump on the shoulder.

Are you Mils or MOA? You would be 3/4 MOA high, or .2 Mil high.

Friday was cold, and I would expect an impact low, not high. So that's why I ask all these questions. And you dang right there's lots of variables, but not inside 500. Heck even a .308 Win will have the same DOPE to 500 all year long in all DAs and temps. Outside 500 is where it gets dicey.
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#5426803 - 11/17/14 03:50 PM Re: Guys who shoot LR I need some help... [Re: Deerhunter61]
the444shooter Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 11/18/13
Posts: 215
Loc: MT
One thing I've gathered in trying to learn about shooting LR in the field--Powder can be extremely inconsistent in regards to lots/batches, and can give extreme variations in different temps--that can mean a lot if you load/test in the summer, and try to make the shot in fall/winter.

Alliant powders (usually the ones for overbore magnums) are the ones I've learned to stay away from--the Hodgdon extreme series seem to do well.

The one thing I do know is that the variables can/will drive you insane.

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#5426876 - 11/17/14 04:07 PM Re: Guys who shoot LR I need some help... [Re: FiremanJG]
505ed Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 366
Loc: Blanco texas
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Did you check zero at 100 first, or cold bore 500 first?

Scope base, and rings tight?

Turrets tight to the scope?

What's the cartridge and how many rounds have been down the barrel?

Previous 500 yard DOPE, was it on virgin brass or brass FL sized with a .003" bump on the shoulder?

Was this brass virgin or FL sized with a .003" bump on the shoulder.

Are you Mils or MOA? You would be 3/4 MOA high, or .2 Mil high.

Friday was cold, and I would expect an impact low, not high. So that's why I ask all these questions. And you dang right there's lots of variables, but not inside 500. Heck even a .308 Win will have the same DOPE to 500 all year long in all DAs and temps. Outside 500 is where it gets dicey.


Good advice...the way I would rat thru details.

Ed

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#5426964 - 11/17/14 04:36 PM Re: Guys who shoot LR I need some help... [Re: Deerhunter61]
HorizonFirearms Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 05/05/10
Posts: 1616
Loc: College Station, Texas
Everything fireman said, what powder ? Use the same primers? Neck tension change I have seen do that too
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#5427001 - 11/17/14 04:47 PM Re: Guys who shoot LR I need some help... [Re: Deerhunter61]
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9433
Loc: Lewisville, TX
Exactly. We need a lot more info to answer your question.
_________________________

www.DallasReloads.com
Type 01 and Type 06 FFL

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#5427035 - 11/17/14 04:59 PM Re: Guys who shoot LR I need some help... [Re: Deerhunter61]
dee Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 4665
Loc: Red River way
What were the weather conditions on your previous range trip?
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"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt

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#5427110 - 11/17/14 05:30 PM Re: Guys who shoot LR I need some help... [Re: Deerhunter61]
Judd Online   content


Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 10762
Loc: Sachse, TX
All your loading components from the same lot as last time? I ask because you had mentioned getting powder in big numbers. A lot difference can definitely cause this issue.
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#5427331 - 11/17/14 06:46 PM Re: Guys who shoot LR I need some help... [Re: FiremanJG]
Deerhunter61 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 5555
Loc: DFW
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Did you check zero at 100 first, or cold bore 500 first?

Scope base, and rings tight? Yes

Turrets tight to the scope? Yes

What's the cartridge and how many rounds have been down the barrel? 6.5 CM; 450 rds

Previous 500 yard DOPE, was it on virgin brass or brass FL sized with a .003" bump on the shoulder? Virgin brass...FL sized but I don't know anything about "bumping" shoulder...

Was this brass virgin or FL sized with a .003" bump on the shoulder. Answer above

Are you Mils or MOA? You would be 3/4 MOA high, or .2 Mil high. Mil and yep it was a .2 adjustment...

Friday was cold, and I would expect an impact low, not high. So that's why I ask all these questions. And you dang right there's lots of variables, but not inside 500. Heck even a .308 Win will have the same DOPE to 500 all year long in all DAs and temps. Outside 500 is where it gets dicey.


I had shot and hit the 500 yard targets but honestly it was getting dark and I was just running thru the yardages and I'm not sure if it was 800 or 900 that I missed first but anyway after missing a couple of times and not being able to see my misses I backed down to 500 in order to get my bearings so I could get back on it at 900 and then 1000 and fired two rounds at the 500 and saw the hits and they were about two inches apart...at least that's what it looked like thru the scope and they were both 3-4 inches high. I don't mind saying it's pretty tough to shoot without a spotter...at least for me.

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#5427345 - 11/17/14 06:53 PM Re: Guys who shoot LR I need some help... [Re: HorizonFirearms]
Deerhunter61 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 5555
Loc: DFW
Originally Posted By: HorizonFirearms
Everything fireman said, what powder ? Use the same primers? Neck tension change I have seen do that too


I use H4350 and no it's not all the same lot because I haven't been able to find that much at any one time...I'm definitely trying too but...

Yes, same primers, neck tensions? How do I measure this?

Wow...and I thought I had most of the variables covered.

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#5427348 - 11/17/14 06:54 PM Re: Guys who shoot LR I need some help... [Re: Judd]
Deerhunter61 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 5555
Loc: DFW
Originally Posted By: Judd
All your loading components from the same lot as last time? I ask because you had mentioned getting powder in big numbers. A lot difference can definitely cause this issue.


No...expensive learning curve! Agh! Lol

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#5427354 - 11/17/14 06:58 PM Re: Guys who shoot LR I need some help... [Re: Deerhunter61]
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9433
Loc: Lewisville, TX
I've had a 120 fps increase in velocity with the same charge of H4350, just a different lot #, from my 260 Rem with 140 VLD's. So, yes, keeping the same lot of powder is important.
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www.DallasReloads.com
Type 01 and Type 06 FFL

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#5427430 - 11/17/14 07:28 PM Re: Guys who shoot LR I need some help... [Re: Deerhunter61]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
You did not answer all of the questions asked.
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Long Range Shooting Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available


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#5427513 - 11/17/14 07:47 PM Re: Guys who shoot LR I need some help... [Re: Deerhunter61]
Deerhunter61 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 5555
Loc: DFW
Originally Posted By: Deerhunter61
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Did you check zero at 100 first, or cold bore 500 first?

Scope base, and rings tight? Yes

Turrets tight to the scope? Yes

What's the cartridge and how many rounds have been down the barrel? 6.5 CM; 450 rds

Previous 500 yard DOPE, was it on virgin brass or brass FL sized with a .003" bump on the shoulder? Virgin brass...FL sized but I don't know anything about "bumping" shoulder...

Was this brass virgin or FL sized with a .003" bump on the shoulder. Answer above

Are you Mils or MOA? You would be 3/4 MOA high, or .2 Mil high. Mil and yep it was a .2 adjustment...

Friday was cold, and I would expect an impact low, not high. So that's why I ask all these questions. And you dang right there's lots of variables, but not inside 500. Heck even a .308 Win will have the same DOPE to 500 all year long in all DAs and temps. Outside 500 is where it gets dicey.


I had shot and hit the 500 yard targets but honestly it was getting dark and I was just running thru the yardages and I'm not sure if it was 800 or 900 that I missed first but anyway after missing a couple of times and not being able to see my misses I backed down to 500 in order to get my bearings so I could get back on it at 900 and then 1000 and fired two rounds at the 500 and saw the hits and they were about two inches apart...at least that's what it looked like thru the scope and they were both 3-4 inches high. I don't mind saying it's pretty tough to shoot without a spotter...at least for me.


500 yd shot was not cold bore...I shot 5 rounds at 100 while I was using the Chrony on my AR to get my MV on it. And no I didn't shoot it thru the Chrony to check because someone else was there that ask me if I'd let him use it to Chrony his rounds. So as soon as he was done I packed up and headed to the 1200 yd range. It was shooting 1" high at 100.


Edited by Deerhunter61 (11/17/14 07:48 PM)

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#5427522 - 11/17/14 07:49 PM Re: Guys who shoot LR I need some help... [Re: ChadTRG42]
Deerhunter61 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 5555
Loc: DFW
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
I've had a 120 fps increase in velocity with the same charge of H4350, just a different lot #, from my 260 Rem with 140 VLD's. So, yes, keeping the same lot of powder is important.


Crap! Crap! Crap!

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