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Bought them bad boyz
#5418686
11/13/14 09:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 23,830
beaversnipe
OP
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OP
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If you wondering if cabelas still has rio bismuth, they are now out of it.
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Re: Bought them bad boyz
[Re: beaversnipe]
#5418751
11/13/14 10:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,228
Jeff Elder
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,228 |
Why do you need 3 1/2 Bismuth?
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Re: Bought them bad boyz
[Re: beaversnipe]
#5418771
11/13/14 10:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 23,830
beaversnipe
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The bismuth is 3 inch nr 4 and was on sale for $17 a box of 10 instead of $25. I split 2 coupons and got another $50 off.
The heavyshot is for a place we have on them big honkers that cross our place every morning at 9 am about 40-50 yards high.
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Re: Bought them bad boyz
[Re: beaversnipe]
#5418830
11/13/14 11:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 23,830
beaversnipe
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You gotta love Bismuth
Wow, did not realise bismuth was that good....
At 7.8 grams per cubic centimeter, steel is roughly 70 percent as dense as lead, and density maintains velocity with distance. With comparative loads, steel will lose about half its energy at 40 yards. If you shoot mostly birds that are sitting down in the decoys at close range, basic steel will do an adequate job. On the flip side of the coin, if you shoot at greater distances, do a lot of pass shooting, or target larger birds, a premium load will be well worth the price when the birds become wary and the wind kicks up. The objective is to put birds in the bag, quickly and humanely -- not just shoot.
Two of the non-toxic shots, Bismuth and Tungsten Matrix, could be classed in the almost lead category.
Bismuth
As noted earlier, Bismuth was the first premium non-toxic load to receive federal approval in the U.S. and Canada. If you haven’t looked at a periodic table since chemistry class, bismuth is listed right next to lead. Since Bismuth is only slightly less dense than lead it is a lead-lover’s dream come true. You will find that Bismuth is harder hitting than steel and is also as soft as lead, which means that you can shoot it in vintage firearms or barrels with a tighter choke. Even though Bismuth is heavier, due to the thicker shot cup required with steel and tungsten-steel loads, Bismuth shells will have a greater payload.
Comparing a 12-gauge, 3-inch #4 load, steel has 127 pellets; tungsten-iron has 125 and Bismuth 175. In addition to the increased number of pellets, the payload is greater with 44% more shot weight with this same load. An increased number of pellets and greater payload can produce a much higher percentage of pellets on target and with the similar impact of lead, and much quicker kills. Bismuth in its pure state is somewhat brittle, so the manufacturer created an alloy of 3% tin to reduce.
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Re: Bought them bad boyz
[Re: beaversnipe]
#5418871
11/13/14 11:30 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 176
pprince
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 176 |
Hey beaversnipe, thanks for all of the helpful clarification on the bismuth shot. It truly helps to hear some facts and not have to wade through all of the marketing BS. One of the things that I have never received a clear explanation on is the labeled shot weight. If bismuth is more dense and there are more pellets in a standard 3" cartridge how is it that it is still 1 1/4 ounces. It makes sense with the heavy shot being 1 3/4 ounces but I am puzzled on the bismuth. Can you shed any light on this for me?
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Re: Bought them bad boyz
[Re: beaversnipe]
#5418884
11/13/14 11:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,943
Ben Lilly
Veteran Tracker
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Ive been using Rio Bismuth #5 20ga loads and Rio blue steel #4 20ga, both in 2 3/4", I dont see much of a difference if any except the price. I did see a big difference between HeavyMetal 3" #4s and the Rio Blue 3" #4s as far as stopping power and not having to follow up.
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Re: Bought them bad boyz
[Re: pprince]
#5418920
11/13/14 11:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 23,830
beaversnipe
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Hey beaversnipe, thanks for all of the helpful clarification on the bismuth shot. It truly helps to hear some facts and not have to wade through all of the marketing BS. One of the things that I have never received a clear explanation on is the labeled shot weight. If bismuth is more dense and there are more pellets in a standard 3" cartridge how is it that it is still 1 1/4 ounces. It makes sense with the heavy shot being 1 3/4 ounces but I am puzzled on the bismuth. Can you shed any light on this for me? The heavyshot on the picture is 3 1/2 inch, the bismuth 3 inches Why the bismuth (high brass 36 gram) is only 1 1/4 ounce? Actually its 1.27 ounce, but still, with 48 more pellets compared to a steel load, its a mistery too me as well why its only 1 1/4 ounce and not 1 1/2 ounce for instance. Im not a ballestic expert, but im sure someone will pitch in shortly... Perhaps the shot size nr 4 is actually a smaller european size nr 5?
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Re: Bought them bad boyz
[Re: beaversnipe]
#5418931
11/13/14 11:57 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 176
pprince
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 176 |
Yea I hope someone will clarify. It has confused me for a while now. I didn't notice that the heavy shot was 3 1/2 sorry for that oversight.
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Re: Bought them bad boyz
[Re: beaversnipe]
#5418946
11/14/14 12:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,228
Jeff Elder
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,228 |
We need an engineer to chime in
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Re: Bought them bad boyz
[Re: beaversnipe]
#5419167
11/14/14 01:58 AM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 12,987
hoof n wings
THF Celebrity
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Posts: 12,987 |
Must be slow in the duck hunting bidness
I'd ask him if he's pregnant. He missed a s__tload of periods. I'll take "things that look like a uterus" for $200 Alex.
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Re: Bought them bad boyz
[Re: pprince]
#5419829
11/14/14 10:25 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,721
Dave Speer
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
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We need an engineer to chime in I'm up early, an engineer, and feeling perky If bismuth is more dense and there are more pellets in a standard 3" cartridge how is it that it is still 1 1/4 ounces. 2 answers. First of all. Let's say you wanted 10 pounds of weight. Pellet diameter was fixed. Let's say the pellets are the size of tennis balls. It would take a lot of tennis balls to equal 10 pounds, right? Now, what if you drilled a hole in each tennis ball and filled them with lead? Not as many tennis balls before you get to 10 pounds. That's how you get more pellets per ounce in steel than lead/bismuth. Secondly. Let's say you have to fit all this into a shotgun shell: wad, primer, powder, shot. You can either put more shot in there and less powder, resulting in a slower shot, or you can put less shot and more powder. The Rio's Beaver pictured travel at 1400 FPS vs the Hevi-Shot at 1300 FPS. You're welcome.
Last edited by Dave Speer; 11/14/14 04:51 PM. Reason: fixed lead vs steel
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Re: Bought them bad boyz
[Re: Dave Speer]
#5420460
11/14/14 04:42 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 298
Teamjefe
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 298 |
We need an engineer to chime in I'm up early, an engineer, and feeling perky If bismuth is more dense and there are more pellets in a standard 3" cartridge how is it that it is still 1 1/4 ounces. 2 answers. First of all. Let's say you wanted 10 pounds of weight. Pellet diameter was fixed. Let's say the pellets are the size of tennis balls. It would take a lot of tennis balls to equal 10 pounds, right? Now, what if you drilled a hole in each tennis ball and filled them with lead? Not as many tennis balls before you get to 10 pounds. That's how you get more pellets per ounce in lead/bismuth than you do steel. Secondly. Let's say you have to fit all this into a shotgun shell: wad, primer, powder, shot. You can either put more shot in there and less powder, resulting in a slower shot, or you can put less shot and more powder. The Rio's Beaver pictured travel at 1400 FPS vs the Hevi-Shot at 1300 FPS. You're welcome. Wouldn't you get fewer pellets per ounce with a heavier pellet? Or am I crazy?
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Re: Bought them bad boyz
[Re: Teamjefe]
#5420498
11/14/14 04:52 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,721
Dave Speer
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
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Wouldn't you get fewer pellets per ounce with a heavier pellet?
Or am I crazy?
You're right, that's what I meant to say, that's what I get for being on the forum at 4 am
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Re: Bought them bad boyz
[Re: beaversnipe]
#5420515
11/14/14 05:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 23,830
beaversnipe
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Having said that, i patterned my gun yesterday with long range patternmaster and bismuth at 45 and 55 yards. Oh my. Im sold!
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Re: Bought them bad boyz
[Re: beaversnipe]
#5421623
11/15/14 03:24 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,795
dogcatcher
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,795 |
Having said that, i patterned my gun yesterday with long range patternmaster and bismuth at 45 and 55 yards. Oh my. Im sold! That's all that matters.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back. _____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: Bought them bad boyz
[Re: Dave Speer]
#5422514
11/15/14 08:45 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 915
sunsetroosters
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 915 |
We need an engineer to chime in I'm up early, an engineer, and feeling perky If bismuth is more dense and there are more pellets in a standard 3" cartridge how is it that it is still 1 1/4 ounces. 2 answers. First of all. Let's say you wanted 10 pounds of weight. Pellet diameter was fixed. Let's say the pellets are the size of tennis balls. It would take a lot of tennis balls to equal 10 pounds, right? Now, what if you drilled a hole in each tennis ball and filled them with lead? Not as many tennis balls before you get to 10 pounds. That's how you get more pellets per ounce in steel than lead/bismuth. Secondly. Let's say you have to fit all this into a shotgun shell: wad, primer, powder, shot. You can either put more shot in there and less powder, resulting in a slower shot, or you can put less shot and more powder. The Rio's Beaver pictured travel at 1400 FPS vs the Hevi-Shot at 1300 FPS. You're welcome. this still doesn't explain why there are more pellets with bismuth with the same weight as steel???
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Re: Bought them bad boyz
[Re: beaversnipe]
#5429893
11/19/14 12:09 AM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 12,987
hoof n wings
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 12,987 |
You can't kill ducks that far..... Having said that, i patterned my gun yesterday with long range patternmaster and bismuth at 45 and 55 yards. Oh my. Im sold!
I'd ask him if he's pregnant. He missed a s__tload of periods. I'll take "things that look like a uterus" for $200 Alex.
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Re: Bought them bad boyz
[Re: hoof n wings]
#5430004
11/19/14 12:55 AM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 23,830
beaversnipe
OP
THF Celebrity
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OP
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You can't kill ducks that far..... Having said that, i patterned my gun yesterday with long range patternmaster and bismuth at 45 and 55 yards. Oh my. Im sold! With steel u cant. Heavyshot 2 with full choke u sure can
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