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#5418686 - 11/13/14 03:54 PM Bought them bad boyz
beaversnipe Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 01/17/10
Posts: 15746
Loc: Uranus
If you wondering if cabelas still has rio bismuth, they are now out of it.
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#5418751 - 11/13/14 04:25 PM Re: Bought them bad boyz [Re: beaversnipe]
Jeff Elder Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 01/09/08
Posts: 6225
Loc: Weatherford/Albany / Matagorda...
Why do you need 3 1/2 Bismuth?
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North central TX duck and dove hunts
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#5418771 - 11/13/14 04:33 PM Re: Bought them bad boyz [Re: beaversnipe]
beaversnipe Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 01/17/10
Posts: 15746
Loc: Uranus
The bismuth is 3 inch nr 4 and was on sale for $17 a box of 10 instead of $25.
I split 2 coupons and got another $50 off.

The heavyshot is for a place we have on them big honkers that cross our place every morning at 9 am about 40-50 yards high.
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#5418830 - 11/13/14 05:05 PM Re: Bought them bad boyz [Re: beaversnipe]
beaversnipe Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 01/17/10
Posts: 15746
Loc: Uranus
You gotta love Bismuth

Wow, did not realise bismuth was that good....



At 7.8 grams per cubic centimeter, steel is roughly 70 percent as dense as lead, and density maintains velocity with distance. With comparative loads, steel will lose about half its energy at 40 yards. If you shoot mostly birds that are sitting down in the decoys at close range, basic steel will do an adequate job. On the flip side of the coin, if you shoot at greater distances, do a lot of pass shooting, or target larger birds, a premium load will be well worth the price when the birds become wary and the wind kicks up. The objective is to put birds in the bag, quickly and humanely -- not just shoot.

Two of the non-toxic shots, Bismuth and Tungsten Matrix, could be classed in the almost lead category.


Bismuth

As noted earlier, Bismuth was the first premium non-toxic load to receive federal approval in the U.S. and Canada. If you haven’t looked at a periodic table since chemistry class, bismuth is listed right next to lead. Since Bismuth is only slightly less dense than lead it is a lead-lover’s dream come true. You will find that Bismuth is harder hitting than steel and is also as soft as lead, which means that you can shoot it in vintage firearms or barrels with a tighter choke. Even though Bismuth is heavier, due to the thicker shot cup required with steel and tungsten-steel loads, Bismuth shells will have a greater payload.

Comparing a 12-gauge, 3-inch #4 load, steel has 127 pellets; tungsten-iron has 125 and Bismuth 175. In addition to the increased number of pellets, the payload is greater with 44% more shot weight with this same load. An increased number of pellets and greater payload can produce a much higher percentage of pellets on target and with the similar impact of lead, and much quicker kills. Bismuth in its pure state is somewhat brittle, so the manufacturer created an alloy of 3% tin to reduce.
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#5418871 - 11/13/14 05:30 PM Re: Bought them bad boyz [Re: beaversnipe]
pprince Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 05/01/12
Posts: 152
Hey beaversnipe, thanks for all of the helpful clarification on the bismuth shot. It truly helps to hear some facts and not have to wade through all of the marketing BS. One of the things that I have never received a clear explanation on is the labeled shot weight. If bismuth is more dense and there are more pellets in a standard 3" cartridge how is it that it is still 1 1/4 ounces. It makes sense with the heavy shot being 1 3/4 ounces but I am puzzled on the bismuth. Can you shed any light on this for me?

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#5418884 - 11/13/14 05:36 PM Re: Bought them bad boyz [Re: beaversnipe]
Ben Lilly Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 2873
Loc: here and there
Ive been using Rio Bismuth #5 20ga loads and Rio blue steel #4 20ga, both in 2 3/4", I dont see much of a difference if any except the price. I did see a big difference between HeavyMetal 3" #4s and the Rio Blue 3" #4s as far as stopping power and not having to follow up.

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#5418920 - 11/13/14 05:50 PM Re: Bought them bad boyz [Re: pprince]
beaversnipe Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 01/17/10
Posts: 15746
Loc: Uranus
Originally Posted By: pprince
Hey beaversnipe, thanks for all of the helpful clarification on the bismuth shot. It truly helps to hear some facts and not have to wade through all of the marketing BS. One of the things that I have never received a clear explanation on is the labeled shot weight. If bismuth is more dense and there are more pellets in a standard 3" cartridge how is it that it is still 1 1/4 ounces. It makes sense with the heavy shot being 1 3/4 ounces but I am puzzled on the bismuth. Can you shed any light on this for me?


The heavyshot on the picture is 3 1/2 inch, the bismuth 3 inches

Why the bismuth (high brass 36 gram) is only 1 1/4 ounce? Actually its 1.27 ounce, but still, with 48 more pellets compared to a steel load, its a mistery too me as well why its only 1 1/4 ounce and not 1 1/2 ounce for instance. Im not a ballestic expert, but im sure someone will pitch in shortly...
Perhaps the shot size nr 4 is actually a smaller european size nr 5?
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#5418931 - 11/13/14 05:57 PM Re: Bought them bad boyz [Re: beaversnipe]
pprince Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 05/01/12
Posts: 152
Yea I hope someone will clarify. It has confused me for a while now. I didn't notice that the heavy shot was 3 1/2 sorry for that oversight.

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#5418946 - 11/13/14 06:05 PM Re: Bought them bad boyz [Re: beaversnipe]
Jeff Elder Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 01/09/08
Posts: 6225
Loc: Weatherford/Albany / Matagorda...
We need an engineer to chime in
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North central TX duck and dove hunts
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Cell 817-597-0781

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#5419167 - 11/13/14 07:58 PM Re: Bought them bad boyz [Re: beaversnipe]
hoof n wings Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 12794
Loc: Arlington/Brownwood
Must be slow in the duck hunting bidness
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I'd ask him if he's pregnant. He missed a s__tload of periods.

Originally Posted By: Hancock
I'll take "things that look like a uterus" for $200 Alex.

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#5419829 - 11/14/14 04:25 AM Re: Bought them bad boyz [Re: pprince]
Dave Speer Offline


Registered: 12/27/07
Posts: 4645
Loc: Austin
Originally Posted By: Jeff Elder
We need an engineer to chime in


I'm up early, an engineer, and feeling perky laugh

Originally Posted By: pprince
If bismuth is more dense and there are more pellets in a standard 3" cartridge how is it that it is still 1 1/4 ounces.


2 answers.

First of all. Let's say you wanted 10 pounds of weight. Pellet diameter was fixed. Let's say the pellets are the size of tennis balls. It would take a lot of tennis balls to equal 10 pounds, right? Now, what if you drilled a hole in each tennis ball and filled them with lead? Not as many tennis balls before you get to 10 pounds. That's how you get more pellets per ounce in steel than lead/bismuth.

Secondly. Let's say you have to fit all this into a shotgun shell: wad, primer, powder, shot. You can either put more shot in there and less powder, resulting in a slower shot, or you can put less shot and more powder. The Rio's Beaver pictured travel at 1400 FPS vs the Hevi-Shot at 1300 FPS.

You're welcome.


Edited by Dave Speer (11/14/14 10:51 AM)
Edit Reason: fixed lead vs steel
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#5420460 - 11/14/14 10:42 AM Re: Bought them bad boyz [Re: Dave Speer]
Teamjefe Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 244
Originally Posted By: Dave Speer
Originally Posted By: Jeff Elder
We need an engineer to chime in


I'm up early, an engineer, and feeling perky laugh

Originally Posted By: pprince
If bismuth is more dense and there are more pellets in a standard 3" cartridge how is it that it is still 1 1/4 ounces.


2 answers.

First of all. Let's say you wanted 10 pounds of weight. Pellet diameter was fixed. Let's say the pellets are the size of tennis balls. It would take a lot of tennis balls to equal 10 pounds, right? Now, what if you drilled a hole in each tennis ball and filled them with lead? Not as many tennis balls before you get to 10 pounds. That's how you get more pellets per ounce in lead/bismuth than you do steel.

Secondly. Let's say you have to fit all this into a shotgun shell: wad, primer, powder, shot. You can either put more shot in there and less powder, resulting in a slower shot, or you can put less shot and more powder. The Rio's Beaver pictured travel at 1400 FPS vs the Hevi-Shot at 1300 FPS.

You're welcome.


Wouldn't you get fewer pellets per ounce with a heavier pellet?

Or am I crazy?

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#5420498 - 11/14/14 10:52 AM Re: Bought them bad boyz [Re: Teamjefe]
Dave Speer Offline


Registered: 12/27/07
Posts: 4645
Loc: Austin
Originally Posted By: Teamjefe


Wouldn't you get fewer pellets per ounce with a heavier pellet?

Or am I crazy?


You're right, that's what I meant to say, that's what I get for being on the forum at 4 am laugh
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Originally Posted By: wal1809
Anybody can follow along, not everybody can blaze a trail.


Dave Speer Wildlife Art @ HuntCrafted

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#5420515 - 11/14/14 11:00 AM Re: Bought them bad boyz [Re: beaversnipe]
beaversnipe Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 01/17/10
Posts: 15746
Loc: Uranus
Having said that, i patterned my gun yesterday with long range patternmaster and bismuth at 45 and 55 yards. Oh my. Im sold!
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#5421623 - 11/14/14 09:24 PM Re: Bought them bad boyz [Re: beaversnipe]
dogcatcher Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 80231
Loc: Abilene or on the road...
Originally Posted By: beaversnipe
Having said that, i patterned my gun yesterday with long range patternmaster and bismuth at 45 and 55 yards. Oh my. Im sold!


That's all that matters.
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