Yep a little poking with a blunt stick never hurt nobody.

If we are talking 55 grain soft point and 100 grain soft point then I agree.

If in turn the 223 is throwing a bonded bullet partition or mono-metal bullet and the 243 is shooting an 80 grain cup and core soft point I have much more faith in the 223.

See? You have to try and put limitations/provisos on the .243 to even have the discsssion. Guess what? You can buy/load partition and mono-metal bullets for a .243 too. And you still have almost twice as much bullet and you can still shoot further with negligible recoil. This makes it the better deer caliber-without limitation. In other words, the fact that you have to devise limitations to even have the discussion proves the .243 is the better deer caliber.

Even with your "limitations" I would still take the .243 every time. 1)a cup and core bullet is fine for deer, 2)you still have 50% more bullet weight, and 3)you still have much more range (with a heavier bullet).

nogalus its a good thing we don't work together or else I would get fired

Wow.. Take a few hours off and yall write a novel!

NP - .243 is a great round and as a kid I wanted one really bad! I did all the research a 10 year old boy could do and I was convinced it was the best round out there! I just ended up getting a .223 for Christmas that year instead. My dad tied a ribbon around a bullet and stuck it in my stocking. Even as a kid, I thought it was a joke. No way this tiny little bullet will kill a DEER! Plus, what would all my friends say?? But it's what I had, and that tiny little bullet has proven itself over the years MANY times over.

There is no person, story, or physics experiment that will ever convince me that the .223 isn't an effective round for deer and hogs. Period, end of story. The fact that you would try to tell me otherwise without having used one yourself, and citing an irrelevant story about a [perfect] 225 yard shot by a kid supports my argument that you have no ground on which to stand.

But then again, who knows, I could have been eating imaginary meat all these years...

I would never use any cup and core bullet in anything under .25

Had a 243 gk explode on a rib and not penetrate vitals.

Yeah im with bobo on this. I have shot enough deer with a 243 and my 223 to know that a 60 grain partition will out penetrate a lot of 100 grain cup and core 243 bullets.

Also under your reasoning you better hang up your 270 because a 300 has more power more energy with a heavier bullet etc. but wait a 375 is even better... but then so is a 458 lot...

That's my take on it, which is why I leave the small calibers alone. Back to the why handicap yourself if you can keep from it?

If you had killed as many deer as I have with the .223 you wouldn't have any doubt as to its lethality. I'm not handicapping myself. I know my limits as well as the gun's limits and to date, I have not had one problem bringing down a deer or hog with this round. It's irritating when people who haven't hunted with it try to tell you it's not capable of doing the very thing you've seen it do for years!!!

Not all hunters share the same limits. Therefore, the 223, or any other 22 cal. CF would very likely be a handicap. I won't hesitate to pull the trigger on a trophy buck at 400 yards. I would not do it with a 223, and especially when I have much more capable rifles in my arsenal. Would I shoot a deer with a 223 inside 200 yards? Darn skippy, in a heartbeat. But I wouldn't run beyond that.

If I was hunting a long sendero in South Texas, where a 400 yard shot was not only possible, but likely, I wouldn't do it with a 223.

We are talking minimum effective deer caliber. That grain weight between 55 and 100 is damn significant to the discussion. Grain weight from 130-400 is meaningless. And just confuses the issue-which is my major frustration with these discussions.

For those who say the .223 is a hammer and a do-all: Wow is all I can say.

For those who at least admit it has some significant limits: Then why in the heck would you use one if you are seriously hunting?
And, more than that, why handicap a kid who has none of the tools most of you say are necessary i.e. precise shot placement.

None of this really makes any sense, except for today's folk have just elevated a small cartridge way beyond where it needs to be. And for what? Nothing.

To me the only limits of the 223 (good bullets assumed because I wont shoot deer with a v-max... much like I wont shoot ballistic tips out of my 270) to me are distance. I have seen it cleanly and quickly kill deer with good shot placement. I have seen it slowly and ugly kill deer just as slow and ugly as many bigger guns would with similar shot placement. This is for a kid I would limit his range any way. To me shoting a deer with a 223 and quality bullet is little different than shooting a 30-30.

Not all bullets are created equal. I bet you haven't shot any deer or hogs with a 223 have nog? If you have I bet it wasn't with good ammo. Im sure it sounds like a broken record, but a 60 grain partition, or similar weight gmx tsx or 75 grain sirocco will perform much different on deer than any 55 grain cup and core bullet out there. Full penetration is the rule not the exception.

Makes perfect sense, limitations of a kid are different then a seasoned adult. Just like my limitation very greatly over yours.

You base your thoughts off bullet size and man handling recoil. I base my on accuracy and impact energy

I've hunted with a .17rem.....it's handicapping since I can outshoot its capabilities.

Heck STX, you are hunting with a can[s]n[/n]on.

Yes and the zoom set on 223mm just for old time sake.

I bet he talks to himself shaving

i wouldnt do it with a 243 either and thats even the upper limit for a 308. if you choose the right tool for the job a 223 is fine. 99% of hunting in texas is done over a pile of bait at a 100 yds or less with an animals head buried in the corn. if you feel you need a magnum for that more power to you, for me its asinine.
anyway fixing to head out and kill sumpin with my sheridan 22-250

Well, I have a 300 I'll swap you for the 500 since you cut off at 223. It's a sweet deal for you!


(223 on that 1.6x crop is about 357...which is popular magnum cartridge, must be < 6')

Shockey kills hogs with a Sheridan pellet gun.

So, there you go. No recoil, no muzzle blast. Perfect for kids.