I'm starting to do my homework and look for a new elk / mule deer gun for Colorado. Hopefully I'll get to start doing some hunting up there in the next year or two. I've narrowed down my caliber choices but I've started wondering what the advantages are of custom rifles.

Are they typically more accurate or is it more of a hobby / collectors type thing? I've used A Remington 700 adl .25-06 for Deer and Hogs the last 12 years or so and it's about as accurate as anyone could hope for. I do realize that I may have gotten a little bit lucky with how accurate this one is but are custom guns typically more accurate?

If a custom rifle IS the way to go then what should I look for when selecting a rifle builder?

All I can say is call Derrick at Horizon Firearms
www.horizonfirearms.com

Very nice work and answers all your questions..Very patient!

I'll probably get one built as a one-time gift to myself eventually.

In my experience and for my uses (basic hunting duties from varmints to hogs), the factory rifles I currently have shoot more than well enough. I hand load for all of them and do little custom touches to each one (stock changes, bed and float, triggers, bases and rings, maybe a bipod here and there.). With my loads, they generally shoot well under M.O.A. at 100 yards with a couple that'll do it at 200 yards.

If I shot more long range target, matches and such I'd probably already own at least one custom. I hear they are like tattoos. Once you have one, you are going to want more.

they do tend to be more accurate than off the shelf but the biggest benefit is you can do anything you want. I have a custom 7mm-08 on a ruger action I had built for caribou right after a shoulder surgery. Got a 24" barrel 8.5lb rifle with 1/2 moa accuracy. Try finding that on the shelf!

at the same time it's a cost/reward decision. Most rifles from ruger, savage, wheatherby and others are excellent guns that will more than do the job.

I like the custom gun route for two reasons.
1. Ain't nobody gonna have one like you.
2. Gnat's azz, lights out, do not pass go, one shot on kill accuracy.

It's like buying a pickup.

A stock 4wd Ford will probably work just fine, but special tires, lights, winch, grill, lift kit, etc. makes it your very own.

With a custom rifle, everything is just a little better....better barrel, better trigger, better bedding, and so on. A better rifle makes you a better shooter, even if it's only in your mind!

While most factory rifles these days produce great accuracy the custom will offer better if not by much but more consistency in accuracy.

Overall weight and length were most important to me ,as we'll as sub 1/2" capability. There was not a shelf rifle I could find. It took a lot of research from other places to help me decide in what I wanted. During my research I also found a lot of gunsmiths were overpriced for what you got. Do your research, there is good information out there on some other forums regarding gun builds especially hunting and not tactical rifles.

Your action of choice. Your caliber of choice, your barrel length of choice, your barrel contour, your twist rate, your chambering, your stock. Flute it how you want it, or none at all. You can have a finished weight in mind and tweak things until you arrive at that weight. I've shot a handful of 3/4 MOA factory rifles, I've shot many 1/4 MOA custom rifles. Customs built by a competent smith will shoot smaller than the vast majority of factory rifles.

Yes, they are addictive. I have three.

Mainly accuracy guarantee, then it's shooters preferences (stock, action, trigger, barrel contour etc.)

Well...I had a nice Ruger Compact 260. Used it for a few years. It was light and accurate and generally a joy to hunt with. It was almost the perfect rifle. But, the barrel was too short, or at least that was my opinion. And even though it was accurate, I wanted better and more consistent accuracy. I decided to buy a Tikka T3 Lite in 260. But now they had quit marketing that rifle in that caliber in the US ( don't know if that's still the case). I whined about it here on the forum, and Chad said he'd have one whipped up for me. Hmmmm. So I agreed to it. I don't know how custom a rifle has to be to be considered custom, and all this one has is the aftermarket barrel that I wanted in the length that I wanted, but I have exactly what I wanted. Super accurate. Light. Short enough but not too short. Basically, I got what I wanted. And I am quite pleased.

What separates your factory rifles from your custom rifles is mainly consistency and accuracy potential. Yes, the custom rifle is more accurate with good ammo, but it will also be more consistent than a factory rifle. Now, if you feed a custom rifle basic factory ammo, it will NOT shoot as good as a custom load or ammo specifically developed for that rifle. The accuracy potential is there, but you have feed it good ammo that shoots well in the rifle.

For example, a local customer built a fully custom 6.5 Creedmoor. He's been shooting factory Hornady 140 A-max ammo (about 100 rounds) to break in the rifle and it shoots a little over 1/2 to 3/4 moa (about 3"-4" groups at 500 yards). We worked on a load with a Berger 140 grain Hybrid, and he shot a 3.5" group at 1000 yards with it. So, the "custom" rifle is only as good as the ammo you are feeding it.

On the flip side, if you buy a factory rifle, free float the barrel and bed the action, and feed it custom ammo, it can be made to shoot very well. Where the differences or consistency will show up is in the longer ranges. From 200-300 yards, you may not see the difference. But much further out, you will notice an improvement with a custom rifle.

you get what you want with guaranteed accuracy and high quality parts. Like looking at a corolla or a Bentley. Mass produced vs hand worked

Thanks for the information. I think I will have to have one eventually.

I do not have a custom rifle and to my knowledge have never fired one either. I do want one and will probably buy one some day.

That said other than competition shooting/hobby/want/extreme long range hunting, I don't think you can really justify a need for one.

You don't have to be a tacticool long range hunter to fit the need. I will be working on my second one soon

Whats your definition of need?

What if you have 15" length of pull or can you find a sub 6lb sub moa factory rifle, etc you can justify anything...
Wether you feel it's justified is a different story. No different then caliber choice...

In my opinion those are things that can be worked around. Standard length of pull on a factory rem long action works just fine for my FIL at 6-4, me at 6 even and I was shooting the same gun when I was barely 5-foot tall.

The op is hooting a factory Remington gun and it fits his needs. I don't think you can justify needing a custom rifle for a general purpose normal range hunting rifle. You can sure buy one or want one, I sure know I want one but in the debate between need and want it is a want. Even though it is "worth" it to someone still doesn't make it a need.

Depends on what you're hunting.

Prairie dog pups are tiny....

Its all a game of inches. Margin of error. So you have a gun that shoots a 1 inch group at 100yards great if you hunt deer at 100 yards, what about coyotes? is 1 moa still ok, yeah at 100 yards probably. Now lets move to 300 yards now you are shooting a 3 inch group with a 1 moa rifle. So think about your shooting.. lets say you are going on an expensive mule deer hunt in Wyoming you have a deer out there at 500 yards a 1 moa gun is shooting 5 inch group. Now you add your out of breath from the altitude, and you have buck fever so your 5 inch group quickly becomes a 6 or an 8 inch group. shoot a custom gun that at max is a 1/2 moa gun. You are shooting a 2.5 inch group at 500 and now with all the factories say you are a 4.5-5.5 inch group... you are better then a perfect situation with a 1 moa rifle. Its all math... So you look at your situation and what your performance demands are. Are you a 100-200 yard shooter and minuet of animal is plenty then may never see the need for them.. demand more and you won't be happy 85% of the time with a factory setup........

That all being said there are a lot of other factors that go into shooting well besides the gun, its about the system. For example we do the ZEROlight anti cant devise. I have been testing it a lot and hope to put out a video next week if I can get the time. Took a 7 mag and shot level at 500 yards. Then canted it bubble off about 6 degrees and moved my group 4.7 inches left or right depending on the cant, and that is with a gun that shoots under .5MOA

Lots of good information....so I'll highlight a few and then address the gunsmith question since it didn't get as many answers.

Yes, a custom gun is more accurate. If you aren't ever going to shoot over 200y then you'll likely not see the difference. Factory gun is normally just slightly below MOA, there are some that actually guarantee this...like the Thompson Center rifles. Shooting minute of deer you might not even notice the benefits. But there is nothing like a nice custom action with all the specific parts you picked out or wanted.

If you aren't going to reload as Chad said you'll likely never see the true potential of a custom gun.

As far as gunsmith...call and talk to a few. Get a feel for your gunsmith because it is beneficial to form a relationship with him. I have a relationship with my gunsmith that is almost like a marriage...I give him copious amounts of money and he will bitch at me at times What you want is a gunsmith is someone who has a good reputation of doing good work, will work with you and typically is recommended by someone or you shoot against them in competitions. Don't get caught up on turn around time...good things are worth waiting on and especially in this business...you also want a gunsmith who is busy because that means he has lots of work.

Obviously, Derrick @ Horizon has done some great work for several people here on the THF. In the DFW area I have used in some capacity or another TDK (Aaron Little from here), S&S Precision (Stick Stark in Denton) and Trammel's Custom Rifles (Jon Trammel in Breckenridge, TX). I would't hesitate to have any of those guys work on my stuff but the one I've basically married is Jon Trammel. Odds are he won't be the cheapest or the fastest but I have had him build 4 different guns for me and they all have shot and he's a super nice guy to boot and we shoot against each other in competitions. He would just soon see me win shooting his gun than him win. Keep in mind, there are a lot of good gunsmiths out there even outside of TX but there are some bad ones too...just becareful.

Oh and my last small piece of advice...don't pay to true a factory action, either get a full on custom action or just get a factory one rebarreled. That is money you will never ever get back and once you've spent it and added it to the cost of the original action you are real close to a custom.


Then a parting shot to my buddy JG....you really have 2 customs and a Savage I just couldn't resist.

Dang...I'm too slow typing the book up...that was supposed to be right after BIL's post.

the "need" part is a rifle, the "want" is where you spend your money.....

clichés: pick one
buy once cry once....
it only costs a little more to go first class....
only buy the best you can afford....

A good one!

All the Savage action does is move a handload from the mag into the chamber, fires it, then kind of ejects it....