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Re: What are the advantages of a custom rifle??
[Re: Judd]
#5400377
11/05/14 04:51 PM
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Joined: May 2010
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HorizonFirearms
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Lots of good information....so I'll highlight a few and then address the gunsmith question since it didn't get as many answers.
If you aren't going to reload as Chad said you'll likely never see the true potential of a custom gun.
Disagree shoot the 6.5 creedmoor or the nosler trophy ammo in the other calibers. we have has some guns shoot lights out with that ammo.
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Re: What are the advantages of a custom rifle??
[Re: HorizonFirearms]
#5400480
11/05/14 05:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,250
Judd
#1 Creedmoor Fan
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Lots of good information....so I'll highlight a few and then address the gunsmith question since it didn't get as many answers.
If you aren't going to reload as Chad said you'll likely never see the true potential of a custom gun.
Disagree shoot the 6.5 creedmoor or the nosler trophy ammo in the other calibers. we have has some guns shoot lights out with that ammo. I had a 6.5 Creedmoor (on a cough cough Savage action) that TDK actually chambered for me. It shot the factory 140 & 120 Amax match ammo close to my handloads. So you are right but I still don't see the purpose in spending all that money on a killer rifle then throwing factory ammo down it...99% of the time you can get it to shoot better with a load tuned for the barrel than you will out of a box. So I'm agreeing with you but also saying those guns that you have that shoot box ammo well could probably shoot even better if a load was tuned for that barrel. Disclaimer: I know when you are talking minute of deer it really doesn't matter, especially < 300 yards. Also, to anyone going to have a custom gun built and want to get the most out of a rifle + don't want to reload...that is what Chad is for, use him...he does a great job and can load you up 10 boxes and you'll have a lifetime of hunting ammo custom tuned. A good one! All the Savage action does is move a handload from the mag into the chamber, fires it, then kind of ejects it....
Last edited by Judd; 11/05/14 05:27 PM. Reason: added disclaimer
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
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Re: What are the advantages of a custom rifle??
[Re: fishhound]
#5400564
11/05/14 05:56 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
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spg
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As soon as I can decide on a caliber I'm going have Horizon build one for me. Either 264 WM or 7STW.
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Re: What are the advantages of a custom rifle??
[Re: Judd]
#5400655
11/05/14 06:43 PM
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Posts: 1,732
HorizonFirearms
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So you are right but I still don't see the purpose in spending all that money on a killer rifle then throwing factory ammo down it...99% of the time you can get it to shoot better with a load tuned for the barrel than you will out of a box. ) Agree to disagree. Perfect example here is the rebarrel we did for mrciro on his winchester. this is factory nosler ammo. Nosler factory ammo is essentially loaded like hand loads. I am also trying to find another gun we did the same week but I think I sent the groups with the customer. Gun came in we tried these nosler ammo and the best it would do was 1.25 at 100. rebarreled it used the same box of ammo and it left shooting just over .25 Custom ammo and custom rifle are 2 different boats that can but don't have to go together. I dislike rifle builders saying here is your custom build.. oh by the way it only shoots this ammo that we hand load, unless its a wildcat custom gun should shoot good with factory loads and great with hand loads. but doesn't have to be hand loads to be great. Just my opinion.
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Re: What are the advantages of a custom rifle??
[Re: spg]
#5400659
11/05/14 06:45 PM
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HorizonFirearms
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As soon as I can decide on a caliber I'm going have Horizon build one for me. Either 264 WM or 7STW. As soon as I can decide on a caliber I'm going have Horizon build one for me. Either 264 WM or 7STW. we can do ether but still think you need to seriously consider that long throated 7 mag with 180 grain bergers. Way easier to get brass
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Re: What are the advantages of a custom rifle??
[Re: HorizonFirearms]
#5400732
11/05/14 07:14 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
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As soon as I can decide on a caliber I'm going have Horizon build one for me. Either 264 WM or 7STW. As soon as I can decide on a caliber I'm going have Horizon build one for me. Either 264 WM or 7STW. we can do ether but still think you need to seriously consider that long throated 7 mag with 180 grain bergers. Way easier to get brass Boom! Absolutely correct! That's what I run and it is a hoss!
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Re: What are the advantages of a custom rifle??
[Re: fishhound]
#5400733
11/05/14 07:15 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,951
ChadTRG42
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Sure, at 100 yards, it may be hard to tell a good shooting factory load from a custom load apart. What's the actual difference from a .25" to a .3" group at 100 yards anyway. Sure, it's .05". But take that out to 600, 800, or 1K yards and shoot it through a chronograph, and you WILL see a difference in the 2 types of ammo. I don't test ANY of my precision rifle loads at 100. The closest I will shoot is 200, and most often shoot at 300. Why, b/c you can not see the differences between certain loads at 100 yards. It's too close of a distance.
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Re: What are the advantages of a custom rifle??
[Re: fishhound]
#5400839
11/05/14 08:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,250
Judd
#1 Creedmoor Fan
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Good point too Chad...I can't shoot 100y because I'm not good enough to read the groups at that yardage. I'm good with agreeing to disagree too Derrick
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
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Re: What are the advantages of a custom rifle??
[Re: fishhound]
#5400913
11/05/14 08:54 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,817
TDK
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I don't dabble with "custom" synthetic bolt guns much, so my opinion on advantages of a custom is different. Yes, the gun will typically shoot more accurately and better materials used. The customer has more options on what to do, as well as one-off things. Had a customer that wanted a Damascus butt plate and grip cap. Know where to get one? Cant order that at Brownells. Here is what we made: Want a pair of 1911 grips with U.S. dimes dated 1911? cant find that either. Want a barrel contour matching a pre-war Rigby? Aside from one-off stuff, $3000 wood, and high coverage engraving custom guns can also be stocked to fit you. Most people see benefit from this concerning shotguns, rifles shouldn't be any different. One of the single shots we made had stock dimensions that fit me perfectly. With no iron sight, no scope, no nothing I could quickly point this rifle(like a shotgun)and hit a 10"-12" steel plate at 220yds the vast majority of the time. Without shooting it ten times to "find the target". Just walk out, point, shoot. no resting the rifle on anything, no holding the rifle awkwardly. You just cant do that with an ill-fitting factory gun. I call this trait shootability. Shootability translates to a rifle you can shoot more accurately in all scenarios. Shootability comes from a fitted gun, proper handling, good balance, pointability, proper weight, etc... When concerning finish of the wood and metal no factory gun can get to the same level of finish as a good custom gunmaker. A lot of people wouldn't care about this aspect, but mine do. Craftsmanship is also much higher on every aspect. Cant get extremely tight wood-to-metal fit on a factory rifle.
Last edited by TDK; 11/05/14 09:08 PM.
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Re: What are the advantages of a custom rifle??
[Re: fishhound]
#5401193
11/05/14 11:00 PM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 6,578
Wburke2010
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Like everyone has said above I shoot a custom rifle for a few reasons. Number one I got to have built exactly like I wanted down to every little detail, the fun fits me perfect. Also custom rifles with tuned ammo do shoot better than most factory rifles. The only problem is custom rifles are a sickness and once you get it there is no way to stop a factory rifle will never make you happy anymore so be careful. Walter
MW Ranch Services 903-303-4523 Metal buildings, welding, equipment repair, dirt work
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Re: What are the advantages of a custom rifle??
[Re: TDK]
#5401341
11/06/14 12:09 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,273
blackcoal
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I don't dabble with "custom" synthetic bolt guns much, so my opinion on advantages of a custom is different. Yes, the gun will typically shoot more accurately and better materials used. The customer has more options on what to do, as well as one-off things. Had a customer that wanted a Damascus butt plate and grip cap. Know where to get one? Cant order that at Brownells. Here is what we made: Want a pair of 1911 grips with U.S. dimes dated 1911? cant find that either. Want a barrel contour matching a pre-war Rigby? Aside from one-off stuff, $3000 wood, and high coverage engraving custom guns can also be stocked to fit you. Most people see benefit from this concerning shotguns, rifles shouldn't be any different. One of the single shots we made had stock dimensions that fit me perfectly. With no iron sight, no scope, no nothing I could quickly point this rifle(like a shotgun)and hit a 10"-12" steel plate at 220yds the vast majority of the time. Without shooting it ten times to "find the target". Just walk out, point, shoot. no resting the rifle on anything, no holding the rifle awkwardly. You just cant do that with an ill-fitting factory gun. I call this trait shootability. Shootability translates to a rifle you can shoot more accurately in all scenarios. Shootability comes from a fitted gun, proper handling, good balance, pointability, proper weight, etc... When concerning finish of the wood and metal no factory gun can get to the same level of finish as a good custom gunmaker. A lot of people wouldn't care about this aspect, but mine do. Craftsmanship is also much higher on every aspect. Cant get extremely tight wood-to-metal fit on a factory rifle. Agree with you 100%, now you are starting to talk custom. Much of what is called custom is nothing more than high dollar bolt on material. McMillan stock and Timney trigger and Harris bipod does not qualify as custom.
The Greatest Enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.--Stephen Hawking
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Re: What are the advantages of a custom rifle??
[Re: blackcoal]
#5402237
11/06/14 12:38 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
THF Trophy Hunter
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I don't dabble with "custom" synthetic bolt guns much, so my opinion on advantages of a custom is different. Yes, the gun will typically shoot more accurately and better materials used. The customer has more options on what to do, as well as one-off things. Had a customer that wanted a Damascus butt plate and grip cap. Know where to get one? Cant order that at Brownells. Here is what we made: Want a pair of 1911 grips with U.S. dimes dated 1911? cant find that either. Want a barrel contour matching a pre-war Rigby? Aside from one-off stuff, $3000 wood, and high coverage engraving custom guns can also be stocked to fit you. Most people see benefit from this concerning shotguns, rifles shouldn't be any different. One of the single shots we made had stock dimensions that fit me perfectly. With no iron sight, no scope, no nothing I could quickly point this rifle(like a shotgun)and hit a 10"-12" steel plate at 220yds the vast majority of the time. Without shooting it ten times to "find the target". Just walk out, point, shoot. no resting the rifle on anything, no holding the rifle awkwardly. You just cant do that with an ill-fitting factory gun. I call this trait shootability. Shootability translates to a rifle you can shoot more accurately in all scenarios. Shootability comes from a fitted gun, proper handling, good balance, pointability, proper weight, etc... When concerning finish of the wood and metal no factory gun can get to the same level of finish as a good custom gunmaker. A lot of people wouldn't care about this aspect, but mine do. Craftsmanship is also much higher on every aspect. Cant get extremely tight wood-to-metal fit on a factory rifle. Agree with you 100%, now you are starting to talk custom. Much of what is called custom is nothing more than high dollar bolt on material. McMillan stock and Timney trigger and Harris bipod does not qualify as custom. While nothing looks like a hand fit wood stock the others have their place as well and are much more suited in certain conditions. Some gunsmiths are known to get amazing fitment with the synthetic stocks as well.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: What are the advantages of a custom rifle??
[Re: fishhound]
#5402423
11/06/14 02:27 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,817
TDK
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With glass bedding.
A wood stocked gun is just as suited as any other in any situation. You may need to make some compromises and have extra diligance to not use the stock as a boat paddle or walking stick.
To the next reply that wood can shrink and expand causing consistency issues, not all wood is created equal.
A.M. Little Bespoke Gunmakers LLC
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Re: What are the advantages of a custom rifle??
[Re: fishhound]
#5402490
11/06/14 02:54 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,732
HorizonFirearms
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Or use an accurate innovation stock that is super nice wood but has an aluminum structure and bedding area.
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Re: What are the advantages of a custom rifle??
[Re: TDK]
#5402523
11/06/14 03:04 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
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With glass bedding.
A wood stocked gun is just as suited as any other in any situation. You may need to make some compromises and have extra diligance to not use the stock as a boat paddle or walking stick.
To the next reply that wood can shirk and expand causing consistency issues, not all wood is created equal. Some get the stock and inlet themselves just like a wood stock. I would rather have a quality synthetic in backwoods rough country than a high end wood stock. The less I worry about hurting something the better. I agree also how they are sealed matters as well.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: What are the advantages of a custom rifle??
[Re: fishhound]
#5402548
11/06/14 03:14 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,817
TDK
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I guess it just comes down to opinion, preference, and taste. I won't knock a synthetic gun, they just don't do it for me. Maybe I'm looking for something different out of the experience, I know I'm in the minority on this subject but I couldn't be happier.
Last edited by TDK; 11/07/14 03:30 AM.
A.M. Little Bespoke Gunmakers LLC
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Re: What are the advantages of a custom rifle??
[Re: TDK]
#5403237
11/06/14 07:27 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
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TDK, you are a craftsman , and I sure appreciate what you do. I form steel on a weekly basis myself. What you do makes a firearm a work of art, and I appreciate it and I place value on that.
However, for my purposes of rifle use I need for them to work properly first, then worry about how they look second. I like sythetic stocks on my bolt actions because they have shown to be very durable and aid in keeping the rifle shooting consistently in all weathers, just as dee described.
But I do have a soft spot for cowboy action firearms with their wooden furniture and I have zero desire to have anything synthetic on my Marlin 336 or my case hardened blued Ruger Vaquero. I'd love to dress up the Marlin in the way that you do.
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Re: What are the advantages of a custom rifle??
[Re: fishhound]
#5403827
11/07/14 12:36 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,126
Brother in-law
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Go ahead since you form steel lets see it
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Re: What are the advantages of a custom rifle??
[Re: fishhound]
#5403849
11/07/14 12:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 21,373
Bullfrog
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TDK does make some very very VERY nice stuff! I'd almost be afraid to take one out! Just beautiful stuff
Man if I knew what Oxner knows I could throw away what I know
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Re: What are the advantages of a custom rifle??
[Re: Brother in-law]
#5404031
11/07/14 02:40 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
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Go ahead since you form steel lets see it Be fun if I had the time for it.
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