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Afghan Urial Sheep (pic heavy) #5357319 10/13/14 04:13 PM
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As most of the regulars on this Forum know, it's not always easy find pure breed exotics. This year I started to look into some of the wild sheep that are on Texas ranches (Mouflons (both European & Armenian), Red sheep and Urials (Transcaspian and Afghan).

As has been posted elsewhere, since Red Sheep are a hybrid you need to be careful in selecting a hunt. And given they are a hybrid you may see more Urial or more Mouflon like characteristics, etc. That and you also see a lot of crosses ... so hunter beware.

On Afghan Urials, which may be one of the best wild sheep bang for buck, there seems to be a lot of variation in what they look like (maybe because there are a lot of subspecies in the wild that they clump together as Afghan Urials.

From the Wild Sheep Foundation, the following are pics that they posted on their site as "Afghan Urials"




If one goes by reputation, the Priour Ranch is the place to go to hunt Afghan Urials in Texas....and some even say it's the only pure herd in Texas. There rams look a little different based on horn shape ..but not much (see photo below which I believe came from the Priour Ranch but the Guides are PBGSO)





Now the question, do you think the ram in the next two photos is an Afghan Urial or a cross. He looks a lot like the rams in the Wild Sheep Foundation 1st pic....but not like the ones from the Priour ranch.






Last edited by TonyinVA; 10/13/14 04:40 PM.
Re: Afghan Urial Sheep (pic heavy) [Re: TonyinVA] #5357395 10/13/14 04:41 PM
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I do know a few high end places have been crossing Armenian Mouflon with Transcaspians/Red Sheep to create something that greatly resembles what you posted in the bottom two pictures. Unfortunately they are asking 5 digit figures for those hybrids and passing them off as afghans.

Priour's afghans have been on that ranch forever...they haven't come in contact with any of the Transcaspian Urial, European Mouflon, and Armenian Mouflon since they are in different areas.

Priour might be the best bang for your buck if your going to complete your introduced wild sheep slam, only one they don't have are Iranian Red.

Re: Afghan Urial Sheep (pic heavy) [Re: TonyinVA] #5357417 10/13/14 04:50 PM
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So Kobus, you vote "no" it is not an Afghan Urial but some type of Transcaspian Urial hybrid?

Re: Afghan Urial Sheep (pic heavy) [Re: TonyinVA] #5357443 10/13/14 05:02 PM
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I'd say so.

My ram I shot looked mostly identical to the bottom picture from the wild sheep foundation.

Re: Afghan Urial Sheep (pic heavy) [Re: TonyinVA] #5357457 10/13/14 05:11 PM
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My concern with the ram in the bottom two pics is that the horns sweep back as opposed to out...like a Transcaspian where as most of the Afghan Urial pics I have seen have horns that sweep outward and have little to no curled tips. But the first photo from the Wild Sheep Foundation does look similar to the ram in the bottom pic....but that's one picture vs a lot of others...so I'm thinking maybe Transcaspian Urial hybrid.

Last edited by TonyinVA; 10/13/14 05:12 PM.
Re: Afghan Urial Sheep (pic heavy) [Re: TonyinVA] #5357805 10/13/14 08:20 PM
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The book "Memories of a sheep hunter" has a lot of good pics , the Rams are killed in there native country.


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Re: Afghan Urial Sheep (pic heavy) [Re: TonyinVA] #5357872 10/13/14 08:51 PM
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I shot my Afghan at the Priour. I don't know if they are the only ranch that has pure Afghans, but I have not run across another one that says they do either.
In Texas that is. I think that the White Elk up in Nebraska has some pure Afghans along with some amazing pure transcaspians.



Re: Afghan Urial Sheep (pic heavy) [Re: TonyinVA] #5358322 10/13/14 11:54 PM
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I've told you several times I'll take you lets go. If you want a urial cross they are out there if you want a pure bred animal I have every species. I hunt the priour and if you look at the books they have just about all of the top end afghans they don't sell ewes. I have 1 other place that I have them and I have shot a lot of them and can judge them very well. I would love to have ya.
Clay Pope


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Re: Afghan Urial Sheep (pic heavy) [Re: TonyinVA] #5358345 10/14/14 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted By: TonyinVA
My concern with the ram in the bottom two pics is that the horns sweep back as opposed to out...like a Transcaspian where as most of the Afghan Urial pics I have seen have horns that sweep outward and have little to no curled tips. But the first photo from the Wild Sheep Foundation does look similar to the ram in the bottom pic....but that's one picture vs a lot of others...so I'm thinking maybe Transcaspian Urial hybrid.


I'm with You TonyinVA, have never seen what was called an Afgan Urial that curled up, the first Pic you posted, I have seen it calling those Sheep Transcaspians??? wish I knew more about the Urials....

Re: Afghan Urial Sheep (pic heavy) [Re: TonyinVA] #5358355 10/14/14 12:09 AM
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Last edited by SheepHunter; 10/14/14 12:22 AM.

Lucky 7 Exotic Ranch located in Eden, Tx. Well managed self sustaining herds roaming our 3,000 acre ranch. First Class Lodging, Ranch style meals and qualified guides. 30+ species.
Re: Afghan Urial Sheep (pic heavy) [Re: TonyinVA] #5358360 10/14/14 12:10 AM
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Here is a good reference
http://www.wildsheep.org
ovis
afghans do not have a black patch

Clay Pope


Offering year round hunting for native and exotic species in Texas!
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Re: Afghan Urial Sheep (pic heavy) [Re: LuckyHunter] #5358370 10/14/14 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted By: SheepHunter

X2 cheers

I can attest to that myself too!

Re: Afghan Urial Sheep (pic heavy) [Re: TonyinVA] #5358400 10/14/14 12:24 AM
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Lots of guys have been breeding the red sheep females to a pure transcaspian male. What they are doing is then breeding the red sheep side back out to get an almost pure transcaspian thus there are quite a few cross bred 1/2 and 3/4 blood type rams out there now. What that is worth is in the eyes of the beholder but as I have told you SCI is accepting these crosses as red sheep thus you get these 35+ type animals which in all actual reality is a little big for a true red sheep and many of them possess the larger body and the more rounded looking horns. Afghans do not have a long black mane.
Clay


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Re: Afghan Urial Sheep (pic heavy) [Re: TonyinVA] #5358416 10/14/14 12:31 AM
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Appreciate everyone's comments. It more or less confirms what I thought. ...and Clay, I agree that you do take your share of great looking Afghan Urials.

Re: Afghan Urial Sheep (pic heavy) [Re: PBGSO] #5358433 10/14/14 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted By: PBGSO
Lots of guys have been breeding the red sheep females to a pure transcaspian male. What they are doing is then breeding the red sheep side back out to get an almost pure transcaspian thus there are quite a few cross bred 1/2 and 3/4 blood type rams out there now. What that is worth is in the eyes of the beholder but as I have told you SCI is accepting these crosses as red sheep thus you get these 35+ type animals which in all actual reality is a little big for a true red sheep and many of them possess the larger body and the more rounded looking horns. Afghans do not have a long black mane.
Clay


SCI Afghan Urial

Overall color varies from reddish-buff to yellowish-brown. Rump patch and underparts are white, the face a bluish-gray. Rams have a white bib, long black neck ruff and a small black saddle spot in the winter coat. The horns are homonymous, triangular in cross section, and strongly wrinkled.

Re: Afghan Urial Sheep (pic heavy) [Re: TonyinVA] #5358434 10/14/14 12:36 AM
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If those 2 were to go in the books they would be the new number 1 and the new number 2 SCI. We took 5 afghans that would be top 10 I just don't get into the record books like I guess I should. The other thing is Walt isn't running the Priour ranch anymore they have a new guy John he is a great guy, but he doesn't have the experience guiding that Walt had.
Clay Pope

Last edited by PBGSO; 10/14/14 12:45 AM.

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Re: Afghan Urial Sheep (pic heavy) [Re: TonyinVA] #5358924 10/14/14 04:57 AM
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My Afghan from the Priour early in February 2014. I saw a Bunch of Gorgeous Rams...

Re: Afghan Urial Sheep (pic heavy) [Re: TonyinVA] #5358932 10/14/14 05:08 AM
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That black mame doesn't seem to match any other "pure" afghans I've seen photo's of. But don't take my word for it please!

I hope you find a pure one mate!


I prefer meat in it's original packaging.

JP Hunting - Australian big game guide and outfitter service.
Re: Afghan Urial Sheep (pic heavy) [Re: JPHunting] #5359636 10/14/14 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: JPHunting
That black mame doesn't seem to match any other "pure" afghans I've seen photo's of. But don't take my word for it please!

I hope you find a pure one mate!

Here is mine as an example.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/h...6573d650d55423c

He was an old ram and my guide estimated him to be 11/12 years old. The horns never flare or curve outward but maintain a distinctive half moon shape like Kodiak's and all the others harvested off of Priour.

Re: Afghan Urial Sheep (pic heavy) [Re: TonyinVA] #5360092 10/14/14 08:32 PM
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Here are some obvious hybrids, sadly they are in afghan urial category for SCI top three...
Poor saps probably paid heck of a lot more moola for a hybrid then the real thing!!!!! frown

As for what they are mixed with, Transcaspian/Red sheep most likely....with no real afghan blood in there. (priour doesn't sell their afghans so that means Thomson Templites can't go Dr Frankenstein on them and cross them out to extinction)

Last edited by Kobus; 10/14/14 08:34 PM.
Re: Afghan Urial Sheep (pic heavy) [Re: Kobus] #5360313 10/14/14 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: Kobus




Here are some obvious hybrids, sadly they are in afghan urial category for SCI top three...
Poor saps probably paid heck of a lot more moola for a hybrid then the real thing!!!!! frown

As for what they are mixed with, Transcaspian/Red sheep most likely....with no real afghan blood in there. (priour doesn't sell their afghans so that means Thomson Templites can't go Dr Frankenstein on them and cross them out to extinction)

I hunted Afghan Urail sheep in Pakistan in the late 80s, it looks like the sheep in the center pic. Nothing like the Urials in Texas ,Also took a nice red in Iran on the same trip it looks like none of the Reds in Texas. Most all sheep breeds in Texas have been hybridize. There are some great mouflon breeders in Texas that look " pure" !!


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Re: Afghan Urial Sheep (pic heavy) [Re: TonyinVA] #5360316 10/14/14 10:31 PM
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Pictures of them?

Re: Afghan Urial Sheep (pic heavy) [Re: Kobus] #5360320 10/14/14 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: Kobus




Here are some obvious hybrids, sadly they are in afghan urial category for SCI top three...
Poor saps probably paid heck of a lot more moola for a hybrid then the real thing!!!!! frown

As for what they are mixed with, Transcaspian/Red sheep most likely....with no real afghan blood in there. (priour doesn't sell their afghans so that means Thomson Templites can't go Dr Frankenstein on them and cross them out to extinction)



I don't want to offend anyone but from what I've seen the SCI leaves a lot to be desired.
I saw a head taken last year or the year before in NZ and classed now as "World number one free range red deer". It's a big deer no doubt but I've seen a handful in my lifetime shot that are a fair bit bigger. I think that issue comes from that fact that in the south pacific (i.e. Aus and NZ) we use Douglsa score not SCI so heads are only compared to other heads taken by people from other countries and aren't compared to the cohort shot by people living in the country the animal was shot in. But that's digressing from the topic.

Tony you might just have to head to Pakistan to get a pure one! haha


I prefer meat in it's original packaging.

JP Hunting - Australian big game guide and outfitter service.
Re: Afghan Urial Sheep (pic heavy) [Re: Kobus] #5360331 10/14/14 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: Kobus
Pictures of them?

No digital pics in the 80s, I will get them scanned and posted.


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Re: Afghan Urial Sheep (pic heavy) [Re: JPHunting] #5360529 10/15/14 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted By: JPHunting
Originally Posted By: Kobus




Here are some obvious hybrids, sadly they are in afghan urial category for SCI top three...
Poor saps probably paid heck of a lot more moola for a hybrid then the real thing!!!!! frown

As for what they are mixed with, Transcaspian/Red sheep most likely....with no real afghan blood in there. (priour doesn't sell their afghans so that means Thomson Templites can't go Dr Frankenstein on them and cross them out to extinction)



I don't want to offend anyone but from what I've seen the SCI leaves a lot to be desired.
I saw a head taken last year or the year before in NZ and classed now as "World number one free range red deer". It's a big deer no doubt but I've seen a handful in my lifetime shot that are a fair bit bigger. I think that issue comes from that fact that in the south pacific (i.e. Aus and NZ) we use Douglsa score not SCI so heads are only compared to other heads taken by people from other countries and aren't compared to the cohort shot by people living in the country the animal was shot in. But that's digressing from the topic.

Tony you might just have to head to Pakistan to get a pure one! haha


I would too and Iran also haha if I had the budget and there wasn't a looming threat of the Taliban waiting to blow my head off.

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