This post is dedicated to custom and semi custom hunting rifle plans only in order to give ideas to those thinking about a future build. Please limit your chit chat and smileys and try to use the pm messaging system for questions
At a minimum, let's use this template
Caliber Make and type of action? Barrel maker, contour, length of barrel, twist rate, style of flutes? Stock maker, style, color? Trigger maker and weight? Bottom metal or magazines? Maker and size of scope? Maker of rings and bases? Other accessories? Gunsmith (optional) Bullet Recipe ? Total weight and length of gun
6.5 Creedmoor Stiller Predator action Brux 1/8 twist with Hybrid fluting, #3 Contour McMillan Hunter stock in black ,od, orange , 13.75 lop Timney 2lb trigger Satin Black Cerakote Leupold 3x10x50 duplex with CDS, sitting on Talley Highs Stiller bottom metal and bolt knob Custom loaded Berger VLD 130 at 2810 fps Gun with scope is 21.5" and weighs just over 8 lbs Gunsmith - ZG customs
7mm -08AI Rem or clone action although a FN CRF action would be nice Krieger, bartlien or brux in a magnum contour Manners stock in a chassis system AI maggs for chassis Jewell trigger set at 1.5lbs Not sure on optics I run Amax's in my current 7mm-08AI for hunting with good results but would likely try berger classic hunters out.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
6mm Creedmoor Horizon/Stiller action Cerakote Magpul tan Benchmark 1/8 twist 26 inch VC with QD for Suppressor McMillan McSwirly HTG with Surgeon BDM AI Mags tan/olive/black Huber Two Stage trigger at 2.0lbs Stiller 20 Moa base TPS super low rings 3.5-21X50 Bushnell Tactical DMR 105 Berger Hybrid's at 3080fps Load 42.0gr N160 AOL 2.765 Built by Derrick Ratliff of Horizon Firearms
Last edited by DStroud; 08/21/1401:54 PM.
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
7WSM FN SPR action and floormetal Broughton #4 1:9 at 24" KG cote black on metal McM Sako Hunter molded tigerstripe (75%black, 25%OD) Jewel trigger Near 20moa rail Premier Hunter GenIIMD with turret conversion in Seekins rings 168 VLD at 3006 FPS Weighs 10lbs 3oz. Built by American Precision Arms
243Win Remington Short trued up w/BDL bottom Wyatt's mag box Bartlein Bull Sporter 1:8 at 24" fluted, threaded 5/8x24 Graphite black ceracote McM A1-3 "McFlame" black to red to orange to yellow. Pre-XMP trigger worked over Seekins rail and rings Premier Light Tac 3-15, GenIIMD 105VLD at 2900ish Weighs 10lbs Built by Gene Williams
223AI Remington Short trued up. Williams bottom with mag box mod to run the heavies PacNor Rem Varmint contour 1:8, fulted at 22" KG cote black on all metal Manners MCS-T Pre-XMP trigger worked over to 2lbs. Seekins rail and rings Bushnell 3-12x44 LRHS (temporary home for this scope) 50VMax (3270fps) and 75Amax (cant recall) Weigh 10lbs, 8oz Built by American Precision arms
Eventually... Caliber: 6.5x39 (Custom round based on the 7.62x39 but using 6.5mm bullets. Something may already exist, but have not researched it much) Action: Savage Target Action Trigger: Savage Target Accutrigger (6oz-2.5lbs adjustable) Barrel: Not sure, still need to research Stock: Manners probably Scope: Leupold VX 6 or Vortex (Will be used for hunting and target shooting)
260Rem Remington Short trued up Williams bottom metal Wyatt's mag box Brux #5 fluted, 1:8, 24", threaded 5/8x24 OD ceracote Timney 510 at 2lbs, 2oz. McM A1-3 (60%med tan, 20%OD, 20%black) Seekins base and rings Premier Light Tac GenIIMD Built by Gene Williams 130VLD over H4350 2800+/- Weighs right at 10 lbs IIRC.
Last edited by RHutch; 08/21/1409:13 PM. Reason: Added color info
300 Whisper Remington 223 donor trued up, BDL bottom Sako extractor Shilen Select Match, Rem varmint contour, fluted,1:8 , 16.5" threaded 5/8x24 Tuned old Rem trigger B&C M40 stock EGW 30moa rail, Seekins rings IOR 2.5-10x42. FFP MP8 Scary accurate with 220 SMK subs and LilGun at 1030ish. 9.5 lbs +/-
Where I to build this again, I would drop a contour or two. Too heavy IMO with a can screwed on and the extra barrel meat isn't needed for this round with a short stiff barrel.
Blue printed remington 700 long action by S&S precision sako extractor fluted bolt ptg bolt know ptg bottom metal Bell& Carlson medalist stock bedded Brux 1 in 8.5 twist chambered in 6.5x284 Lapua 27" long fluted #4 taper jewel trigger bedded by Stick brake by stick night force steel 20 moa base (bedded) night force rings low night force Nxs 5.5-20x56 Weight is 9.1 lbs
Something different but definitely custom 510B (50 Beowulf case blown out to 510) Savage long action 1:10 twist PacNor stainless 16.5" barrel, 1.05" diameter 1.5# SSS trigger Blind mag holds 3 rounds Burris 3-9x scope Form 1 reflex suppressor - all 304ss, removable for cleaning
510 BMG ball projectile 647gr with accurate #9 behind it
I haven't shot it past 100 yards yet so I'm not sure. It will definitely knock down anything you hit with it though. I plan to do a little pig hunting just for fun when it cools off.
I have loaded a few API rounds just for fun also. It makes a nice big flash on impact...
I'm loading them at 1000 fps to stay subsonic. I can push them a lot faster without worrying about pressure but my intent was to build the largest suppressed subsonic round I could. It nice it fairly cheap to shoot too since the surplus ball projectiles are $0.55 each
300WSM Remington SA trued up, BDL bottom Rock Rem Varmint contour, 1:11.25, 25" Vais brake Manners MCS-T Rem trigger set at 2.5 lbs Seekins mounts Zeiss Diavari 3-12x56 Illuminated mildot Weighed 11+pounds. Built by AmericanPrecision Arms
Would not recommend building a WSM on a Remington Short action. Too short for the long bullets.
I haven't shot it past 100 yards yet so I'm not sure. It will definitely knock down anything you hit with it though. I plan to do a little pig hunting just for fun when it cools off.
I have loaded a few API rounds just for fun also. It makes a nice big flash on impact...
One of my favorites for a pure hunting rifle... 7-08 Remington Ti action GreTan firing pin assembly Broughton #3, 1:9, 22" McM mountain rifle Edge fill, ADL bottom. Rem trigger tuned up 2.5 lb Talley lightweight lows Zeiss Diavari 2.5-10x42 #8 with turret conversion/Kenton knob Weighs 7lbs 11oz as it sits Built by American Precision Arms Shoots the 140Abond and 120TTSX under half inch at 100.
Thanks, Jason. This is the rifle I want to use in your training class. I have all the parts except for the finished barreled action. I will let you know when I get it and get a load worked up.
Caliber - .450 Marlin Make and type of action? - Savage SS Short action, RH (Model 16) Barrel maker, contour, length of barrel, twist rate, style of flutes? - Apache Gun Works, Magnum,24",1/10, No Flutes. Stock maker, style, color? - Hogue, Rubber covered with aluminum bedding block, Green Trigger maker and weight? - Savage Accutrigger Bottom metal or magazines? - Bottom Metal Maker and size of scope? - Leupold 1.5-5 Maker of rings and bases? - Leupold Other accessories? - Possible muzzle brake Gunsmith (optional) - Me Bullet Recipe ? - Hornady LeverEvolution rounds Total weight and length of gun - Nine pounds, length unknown.
300WSM Defiance Rebel XM action Defiance XM bottom metal Bartlein #3 fluted 1:10 crowned at 24.5" Vais micro brake Titanium ceracote with the bolt body coated in microslick Jewel trigger McM Hunter edge fill, 1/2" decelerator, tan with green specs Talley LWT lows March-F 3-24x42 Built by GAP Weighs 8lb12oz empty. 190vld and H4831SC is the combo I am working with now.
223 Remington Action Badger M4 bottom Rock M40, 1:8 at 22" Rem trigger McM A5 GAP camo standard fill Badger rail, Warne Tac rings Nightforce 3-15 MLR Built by GAP Weight 13lbs+/-
I sold that 223. Was a pig. Was one of my first forays into what I thought I needed in a rifle. I will never go heavier than a Rem Varmint contour and in reality, probably stick with a Brux 5. I got tired of heavy rifles with truck axle barrels. My 260 is my favorite all-round pattern in weight, length and balance, but it is not my favorite rifle. The tan 300 is almost perfection and is the pattern my next will be built off off. Similar to BIL's rifle in post #2.
Specs: Remington 700 fully blueprinted, J-Lack shroud replaced Brux #3 10 twist stainless barrel finished at 24" McMillan Remington Mountain rifle with DBM All metal in black cerakote I put on a Leica 4.5-14 in talley's I had it throated for 115 VLD's Built by Aaron Roberts at Roberts Precision in Spring
Specs: Remington 700 fully blueprinted, J-Lack shroud replaced Brux #3 10 twist stainless barrel finished at 24" McMillan Remington Mountain rifle with DBM All metal in black cerakote I put on a Leica 4.5-14 in talley's I had it throated for 115 VLD's Built by Aaron Roberts at Roberts Precision in Spring
-7mm WSM -Trued Remington 700 -Brux #5, 24", 1:8 twist, I think the fluting is called interrupted? -Manners MCS-EH4- carbon fiber, Elite Moss, w/ MCS-DBM System -Timney flat trigger (not in pic) -NF ATACR 5-25X56 F1 MIL-R -NF 34mm Rings and NF 20 moa base -SilencerCo Harvester -Berger 180gr VLD, R22, & Fed 210 -Cant remember weight off the top of my head... ~12 lbs with out suppressor and mag if I remember correctly.
Interarms Long action - trued 22" Pac-nor barrel 358 Win B&C stock Talley LW rings and bases near 20 year old Leica 1.75-6 with #4 reticle Cerakoted in school colors 3 shot groups @ 100 under/near .5"
Took THIS rifle and sent the barreled action off to Pac-nor to put on a 24" 6.5x55 Swede. Have a nice wood stock for it to go in when it gets back, sometime in August. Minox scope to go on top. vvvv
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Pay it forward - Kids are the future.
Rifles are similar to boats and young women...there's no end to how much money you can pour into them without making them any more useful.
Dont have pics of my next one yet as its still in the shop but Ill through out the specs for it
338 lapua improved defiance xl action with 60 MOA base bartlein 32" 1-9 twist with 5r rifling custom contour fluted, not sure on brake yet manner mcs-ta with the elite fill single feed jewel trigger night force atacr 5-25x56 moar-t not sure on rings 300 bergers and lapua brass, not sure on powder yet or primers (most likely fed 215m) and maybe a 338 can, havent decided on that one yet
Caliber 300 win mag Make and type of action Remington 700 blueprinted Barrel maker, contour, length of barrel, twist rate, style of flutes? Benchmark, fluted, 1 in April Stock maker, style, color? Manners eh 1 dipped in kryptek Trigger maker and weight? Timney Bottom metal or magazines? Hs precision magazine Maker and size of scope? Bushnell ers Maker of rings and bases? Horizon rings with larue base Other accessories? Bungee type strap Gunsmith (optional) horizon Bullet Recipe ? Imr 7797 with a 190 ab lr at about 3050 Total weight and length of gun- not sure but wish I would have got a folding stock for flying
Lefty Tikka action 1:8 twist X caliber 243 24 inch barrel Tikka trigger w Yodave spring installed Manners t 4 stock CDI bottom metal Burris XTR ii 4-20x50 Maybe someday
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
6.5 Grendel CZ 527 Obermeyer, custom, 22 inches, 1:8.4, straight flutes Stock factory walnut, customized for barrel pillar and glass bedded Trigger factory single set 3lbs not set, 10oz set Factory magazines Bushnell 6500 2.5X15 capped target turrets DIP 30MOA rail, Leupold 30mm rings Gunsmith Live Oak Accuracy Bullet Recipe 130gr Berger Hybrid and 129gr Accubond LR Total weight 7.4lbs scoped, sling and full mag
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
300 Whisper built by D&T Custom Gunworks. Reworked G2 action with 18oz trigger. 1.25" diameter "stubbed" ( basically a barrel that threaded over another barrel's action) barrel finished at 16.25".
Accurate ordnance built Stiller TAC 30AW 308 Rock creek 1:11.25 twist 22" Badger Bottom metal/ aw mags Black nitride Manners t3a mud camo skim bedded Timney 510 set at 2.2 lbs Vortex precision matched rings Nightforce 5.5-22x56 MLR Runs a Harris S and atlas bipods
Dan Hardy Built Rem 700 SA trued, badger knob 6.5 creedmoor Tubbs firing pin Side bolt release PTG 1 piece bolt with nesika shroud Benchmark 1:8.5 twist MTU 22" Aics chassis with spigot and atlas Desert tan cerakote Nightforce 20moa rail, seekins rings Nightforce 5.5-22x50 MLR Timney flat shoe 2.2lbs
Tikka T3 .223 KRG Wiskey 3 Sterk bolt handle and bolt shroud. Bushnell 3-12 LRHS pictured but now has a Bushy 3.5-21 DMR barrel cut 22", threaded 1/2x28, running 75amax at 2960fps......
This is my rescue orphan. Pretty much all custom, mostly by me. 30-06 03A3 modified action Timney 2 lb trigger. Custom Fajen stock. Vortex 6-20x44 in a S&G mount. Total cost on this rifle is about $600. Last outing I had it shooting a 100 yd group that looked like the one above. I was shooting 55 Gr 4350 &168 VLD. Scope mount worked loose while shooting, had to make a repair and I haven't had it out to shoot again since.
Confidence is going after a whale in a rowboat, and taking the tartar sauce with you! https://highbrasssports.com
Ok I'll play. Action: Remington C-Series 700 Short Action. Left Hand 6.5 Creedmoor Barrel: Hart #2 Stainless 24" 1-8 twist Stock: McMillian Remington classic ADL 13.5" LOP standard fill 50/50 Black and Orange Bolt: TI Fluted by Karl Kampfeld Cerekote work by Eddie Fosaugh. Swarovski Z3 4x12x50 BT Bare gun weighs 6.5lbs Shoots Custom load 143grain Hornady ELD-X. Sub 1/2" MOA@100yrds Texas Sticker from Buccee's........ Can you say " God Bless Texas"
Last edited by Elkhunter49; 06/16/1610:22 AM.
A true friend reaches for your hand but touches your heart.
Horizon Defiant action with base 28 Nosler Benchmark 1/8 twist 28 inch barrel JP Comp HS Precsion DM Iota Stock Iota Rings Timney 2 Stage trigger All work by Horizon Firearms
First 9 shots with various loads/bullets
Last edited by DStroud; 06/17/1604:03 PM.
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Only picture I could find on my phone. Savage long action 26" Douglas 257wby heavy sporter 1-10 Boyds laminate stock. Wby brass 73grs imr 7828 with 100 gr. Matchking.
DStroud, what kind of velocity are you getting out of that 183 Sierra?
The 183gr was 3184fps I went with the 195gr running 3160fps
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
I would really love to update this thread with my first "custom rifle". It is taking a little longer than I was anticipating. I'll post it up when it's complete.
I always enjoy these threads. Hopefully here in a couple weeks I'll get to post a new rifle. Nothing fancy or cool like pretty much all here - just a pretty typical AR-15.
Alamo Precision Rifles Ranger .308 Winchester Defiance Tenacity Action Muller Sendero Contour barrel, 26 inch, 1-10 twist, straight flutes, threaded muzzle AG Composites Gladius Heavy Fill, color is called "Sage Brush" Triggertech Primary 2.5 pounds Hawkins Precision DBM Scope will be 4-14x50 Nightforce SHV F1 FFP Mil/Mil APR 20 MOA base, Badger Ordnance Rings Side flush mount sling swivels Gunsmith is Alamo Precision Rifles, North Richland Hills, Texas Handloaded 168 Hornady Amax, H4895, Lapua Brass, CCI BR-2, 2800 fps in factory Remington 700V .308 with 26 inch barrel. I still have to do the load workup on this one. 46 inches long, 11.5 pounds
Ordered the rifle 03/09/21, called me said it was ready exactly 6 months later 09/09/21, picked it up 09/11/21 this past Saturday Morning. My first custom rifle. I have no idea why the photos are upside down.
"Whitetail Deer are extinct because of rifles with telescopes mounted on them." - My 11th Grade English Teacher
223 Wylde * Aero Precision 18", 8 twist, rifle length gas, stainless Aero Precision M4E1 upper and lower Faxon Gunner low-mass BCG CMC Single Stage Drop-In 2.5lb Competition Magpul stock Aero Precision parts kits, gas tube, adjustable gas block, Enhanced Carbine buffer kit (haven't decided on what spring and buffer I'll use in the end) Ergo Grip BCM ambidextrous charging handle Coda 15" Carbon Fiber handguard JP 20 MoA mount * Tract Toric 4.5-30x56 Mil Atlas bipod APA Micro Bastard brake (Alamo Precision) Sierra Match King 69 grain (Varget, no load yet)
Some beautiful guns here !!! I now have 2 custom Rifles. Both Built By ALTUS Shooting Solutions. i have another which should be finished in a month
6.5 Creedmoor Proof Barrel Manners Elite Hawkins bottom metel Trigger Tech Diamond Fusion Titanium action Omega 30 can. Swarovski Z6, 5-30, Custom BDC Turret made for my handload.
.22lr, I call her "COTTONMOUTH" Vudoo Barreled action, MTU contour Manners PRS1 stock Trigger Tech Diamond Hawkins Bottom metal Nightforce SHV 5-20x56 for now.
FN 24 Mauser action .284 Win, 23†Douglas barrel Timney Trigger Walnut stock All work done by the late Bob Mitchell of South Houston.
When did you have that built? Bob Mitchell sounds very familiar, My father, Robbie Robbins mentored quite a few up and coming gunsmiths back in the 60’s through 1975, Robbie’s gun shop in Pasadena. Good looking build !
If you`re running down my country, man, You`re walking on the fighting side of me. (Merle)
If you are looking to build or update what you have you need to call Jon Trammel in Breckenridge. (254-559-3455) He is not only a certified gunsmith, he is also a F-class shooter and builds rifles for hunting from varmints to African big four. He was trained at the Colorado gunsmith school back in the 80’s so he has pretty much seen it all. Call and talk to him and you will know I am right.
some people like silver and gold I like brass and lead with a little powder in between
I've put together a few over the years. 6.5 CM Shilen DGR action 26" Shilen select match barrel Trigger Tech Special trigger - hadn't arrived when pic was taken KRG Whiskey 3 chassis IOR Recon 4-28x50 scope mounted in ARC M10 rings Cerekoted Burnt Bronze by Trinity Ordnance, Lake Worth,TX.
22 CM ARC Nucleus Gen 1 action 20" X-Caliber barrel Trigger Tech Diamond trigger KRG Bravo chassis S&B PMII 5-25x56 scope in ARC M10 rings
223 Remington ARC Nucleus Gen 2 action 20" Rock Creek barrel Trigger Tech Special trigger KRG Bravo chassis painted with Alcohol Inks by myself S&B PMII 5-25x56 scope in ARC M10 rings
25 CM ARC Archimedes action 24" X-Caliber barrel - Barrel hasn't arrived yet, so I installed a spare 6.5 CM barrel on it until it shows up. Trigger Tech Special trigger Woox Exactus chassis Athlon Cronus 4.5-29x56 scope in ARC M10 rings
SMR 7mm SAUM Defiance Anti SA Proof 22-in Sendero Nightforce NX8 2.5-20 F1 Hawkins Long Range Hybrid Rings SMR Titanium 2-port brake McMillan Game Warden
I've put together a few over the years. 6.5 CM Shilen DGR action 26" Shilen select match barrel Trigger Tech Special trigger - hadn't arrived when pic was taken KRG Whiskey 3 chassis IOR Recon 4-28x50 scope mounted in ARC M10 rings Cerekoted Burnt Bronze by Trinity Ordnance, Lake Worth,TX.
22 CM ARC Nucleus Gen 1 action 20" X-Caliber barrel Trigger Tech Diamond trigger KRG Bravo chassis S&B PMII 5-25x56 scope in ARC M10 rings
223 Remington ARC Nucleus Gen 2 action 20" Rock Creek barrel Trigger Tech Special trigger KRG Bravo chassis painted with Alcohol Inks by myself S&B PMII 5-25x56 scope in ARC M10 rings
25 CM ARC Archimedes action 24" X-Caliber barrel - Barrel hasn't arrived yet, so I installed a spare 6.5 CM barrel on it until it shows up. Trigger Tech Special trigger Woox Exactus chassis Athlon Cronus 4.5-29x56 scope in ARC M10 rings
Large ring small thread Mauser action with the front ring sides machined flat. German claw mount arrangement w/front dovetailed and rear soldered. 3-Pos safety. Standard floor plate bottom metal w integral box, height slightly reduced. 23†barrel machines octagon to round with integral full length rib and integral sling base. Turkish walnut stock shaped to my style and dimensions w/horn grip cap and butt plate. I’d shoot for 6 1/4-6 1/2lbs w/o optic. Leupold VX3 1.5-5x20 is just fine. 6.5x55 or 6.5x57. Minimal English scroll and border engraving with makers name on barrel and rib engraved with squiggly pattern. Gloss DLC metal coating.
Currently waiting on my 22gpc barrel to come in from Mad Dog Weapon Systems. Uses 6.8 brass basically necked down to .22. Planning on using the Hornady 62gr ELD-VT, and hoping for 3400fps. This would give it less drop out to 1200yd than my 6mm creed, and it really only starts to fall off after 1500.
Super excited for these bullets, I think Hornady really has come.up with something great here.
Only thing I'm sad about is that I can't use it in PRS at that velocity, but I can still even change out to Berger 85 5 if I felt like it.
6GT Terminus Apollo Action Bartlein LH Gain 8-7.5 TW 26" Rem Sendero Contour Ag Comp Adj Hunter FDE Cerakote Hawkins BM W/AI Mags TT Diamond Dead Air Nomad (with cover from Hunter-Steve) Shooting 105 Berger Hybrid Targets at 2940 All Work Done By Myself
Guess I'm old fashion, I don't like the FDE/Tan Cerakote on the metal parts. Give me Graphite Black or Burnt Bronze
For certain things, black can be as bad a camouflage as white.
Oh, forgot about trying to hide. I go for looks but then I'm a little colorblind so there's that. Plus, you know I just sit in a blind, so, I guess I could hunt with a yellow rifle. I love the stock on Lone Star Cobras rifle above.
I already had the 700 action and took everything to my 'smith to get built and he saw me coming. Ended up going home with 2 when it was all said and done.
Top: 7MM-08AI Zermatt Origin, modded to accept Wyatt's extended mag 18" Proof barrel, 1:9, 5/8-24 TT Special AG Composites Alpine Hunter Hawkins BDL bottom metal & Wyatt's extended mag
Bottom: 7mm-08AI Trued Remington 700 17" Carbon Six barrel, 1:9, 5/8-24 TT Special Ag Composites Alpine Hunter Hawkins BDL bottom metal & Wyatt's extended mag
I went through a couple of suppliers looking at rifle build components for a possible future build. By the time I even found what I wanted in stock. The prices were astronomical.
Barrel Stock action trigger bottom metal
Looks like Maybe a Weatherby, Browning, SAKO, Seekins, Bergara or even a Tikka.
Think after this exercise, unless I want to compete again, a factory should do.
Waiting on a custom, stocking up on reloading components is fun.
My favorite hunting rifle last year, she is a little fat at 11 lbs, but the performance is great. 300 PRC Rem 700 Action off my old 7 Mag. Trued, bolt sleeved, and pin bushed, bolt handle timed and fire control timed to the B&A trigger. Shilen 5.5 24†1:8 AG Comp Adj. Hunter Hawkins Hunter DBM Gunmetal Grey Cerakote on Action, Barrel, And Metal NF Rings Leupold MK 5 (Will be sold soon, currently at Leupold, I took a chance and didn't win)