Wanted to let you guys and gals know that Remington has released a few of the R15-VTR model AR15s into the wild, they popped up on Gunbroker this week.

This cartridge was developed in 2008 and launched in 2010. It has been hindered by poor support from Remington, first on available ammunition and then on brass.

Well at the moment, ammo is plentiful on the Internet but brass is still a hinderance of diving head first into this caliber.

I will be putting together some load data for the R15 and will post it here, the marketing tag line for the gun is "Carries like a 223 but hits like a 308".

Ballistically this caliber exceeds 300 Blackout and 7.62x40mm terminal performance because of its higher case capacity. The added case capacity requires special magazines that only allow for single stack feeding but this is designed to be a hunting caliber so 5 rounds should be enough for most hunting scenarios. There are 10 round (11 total) magazines in existance as well.

The total package of lightweight and better terminal performance are interesting, the downside is proprietary design (basically a reworked AR10 upper that mates to an AR15 lower with shaved bolt lug and barrel feed lips).

This to me is still one of the better articles to date on the R15 and again I just wanted to let you guys know that they are available right now.

http://www.realguns.com/articles/209.htm

http://www.realguns.com/articles/210.htm

HTXH

Reminds me of the 6.5 Grendel but with even less factory ammo availability, which I didn't think was possible.

I would say this is true but I am hoping thst it doesn't turn into a HOT MESS like the Grendel....

Short throats, various chamberings, weak bolts, etc...

I loaded the following:

168 grain Berger Classic Hunter bullet
Remington Brass
CCI 450 magnum primers
Accurate 5744 powder
COAL: 2.320 (Note these won't fit in a magazine)
NO CRIMP

Gun: Remington R15 on a New Frontier Polymer Lower, stock trigger

Here are the groups, all shot on the same day - 83 degrees / wind 10 - 15 mph / 100 yards seated with bags on front and back

25.3grs = 3 shot (.660) / 4 shot (.850)

25.6grs = 3 shot (.700) / 5 shot (1.60)

25.9grs = 3 shot (.760) / 5 shot (1.050)

26.2grs = 3 shot (.600) / 4 shot (.750) / 5 shot (1.200)

26.5grs = 3 shot (.500) / 4 shot (.760) / 5 shot (.950)

26.8grs = 3 shot (.840) / 5 shot (1.350)

27.1grs = 3 shot (.830) / 5 shot (2.000)

27.4grs = 3 shot (.400) / 4 shot (.790) / 5 shot (1.400)

27.7 grs = 3 shot (.500) / 4 shot (.780) / 5 shot (.860)

28.0 grs = 3 shot (.500) / 4 shot (.590) / 5 shot (.700)

Conclusions:

•Magazine length was an issue, all the above were shot one at a time (single load)
•I allowed at least 2 mins between each shot
•Barrel was cleaned before session, no cleanings in between groups
•Average of all 3 shot groups is .629, with the best .400
•Average of all 4 shot groups is .753 with the best .590
•Average of all 5 shot groups is 1.234 with the best .700
•The barrel stayed warm beyond the first few sets of shot, with groups opening on the 5th.
•I would say the accuracy node is between 27.4 and 28.0 grains, max charge from the load manual is 28.0 grains.
•No signs of pressure, no case head swipes, no dislodged primers, no malfunctions of any kind.
Next up:

I have torn apart a 4 round factory mag, and shaped it to allow for as much room as possible on the COAL. It will not fall free when the mag release is hit. This is a hunting gun not a storm the castle gun so I can live with it.

I will reload 15 rounds in the accuracy node, with the new seated depth and report those findings.

I have an R15 chambered in .30RAR. Great round. I've been shooting the 150 Core-loct load. Several dead deer, blackbuck and hogs to it's credit.

Bud's Gun Shop and Wholesale Hunter both got a batch in stock.

What no velocity?

I read about this cartridge in 2010 and was quite intrigued. I wondered what happened to it, and thought it was a shame since it looked so promising.

Very good sharing of data, by the way.

It is an intriguing round and it looks like there is some potential with the Berger bullets so I am continuing on that path, they are at the highest range of the calibers capability but velocity is supposed to be at around 2400 FPS. I don't chrono loads, I develop the load for best accuracy and take it afield to see what the animals think of it.

Hey Passthru, can you tell us from experience what you feel the 30 RAR is capable of that other rounds aren't, or I guess another way to ask the question is what hunting situation makes you reach for this round first.

Alleged 2400 fps out of what barrel length?

2400 fps is not too bad considering the cartridge, and the platform. With that bullet, it would be supersonic very far down range. I was just curious since I'll shoot at hogs and coyotes pretty far out, and I need to know MV to do that.

Interesting. I'd like to have the 308 ballistics out of a AR15 platform. I think out of my 16" barrel I'm getting less than 2400fps maybe right at it.

I picked up the alleged MV from a load data book at Cabelas, 22 inch barrel is the test barrel used so far as I am aware.

I love Berger bullets and at times 400 yard shots are possible where I hunt at, so like you, I am interested in seeing this through.

Yessir, I'm a Berger fan myself.

2400 fps, 168 gr, and their BC will make 400 yards no problem for that combination. Prolly have to ear hole them, but at least the wind hold is consistent, so that can be done.

Ought to be deadly on those vicious timber rattlers, uh, mean timber wolves, especially at 9-13 feet.

Shhhhhh!!!!!

Good thing I gave you a new Glock magazine for your birthday. Would have been serious moment to run short of ammo.

Lol

I'm out on 22" barrel.

I'm a little teapot short and stout...

Lol I get that kind of performance out of my 16" MK3 why would I want to add another 6" of barrel for nothing

Less weight , overall cost, and cheaper to reload for (less powder).

I am evaluating a standard format AR15 version of this caliber in summer, if that works out add : more parts availabilty to the above.

Mehhh, The weight differences are negligible. Trading off less than a pound for 6 more inches of barrel just isn't worth it for me. I'd much rather my rifle be wieldy than lighter. 16">22" stalking through brush. Looked at buds and they have them listed for $1025 shipped. You can get a DPMS with same specs in 308 for less actually. You got me on the powder part, but what you save on powder you will spend on brass.

I don't understand your last sentence. Do you mean overall there will be more parts availability for the 30REM or are you saying there will be more available parts for the 30REM than the 308 AR?

Don't get me wrong, I'm feeling the round, I just wish when they were creating rounds for the AR platform they would develop them for shorter barrels. Which I guess is what the 300BLK is a 30cal bullet made for a 8" barrel.

Now I wonder what this round would do out a short barrel? If I could build me a 10.5" upper for my SBR and still be anywhere close to 308 ballistics, would be a hog thumping machine in a tiny package..

The 30 Remington AR is no 308 Winchester so apples to apples comparisons are futile.

I believer the 30 RAR is really a one trick pony, i.e. only a dedicated hunting caliber. I say this because the brass is in such short supply and could remain this way until such time the market demand causes Remington to churn out more pieces OR the caliber falls away into obscurity.

I am taking the approach that if I can develop an accurate load that performs REALLY WELL on hogs then I will load up 400 to 500 rounds and with 3 - 4 reloadings of brass that would give the gun a 2k round lifespan.

Sure I like to shoot my 556, 6mm, 308 win and other guns - each brings something different to the table.

What I was trying to relate regarding parts availability is AR15 vs AR10, let me explain a little further.

Right now the Remington R15 is a propreitary parts system, it has it's own barrel nut, handguard, barrel extension, BCG, magazines and upper reciever. It is a hybrid design and if you break a bolt or shoot out the barrel you are probably going to be hard pressed to find spare parts to get back in service.

What I am evaluating this summer is an AR15 barrel extension and bolt that allow for a standard profile AR15 barrel to go into a standard AR15 upper receiver and run off of a standard BCG. If it all works then you simply have a barrel maker turn a barrel to suit your need , 10.5 inch barrel / 16 inch / 20 inch etc. and since you are operating with standard AR15 parts then that would make it more readily available then an AR10 platform and way more available then a current proprietary design by Remington.

My objective was to sling 30 caliber projectiles out of an AR15 platform with more authority than a 300 blk out or 7.62x40 without having to get into an AR10 profile.

Gotcha makes perfect sense now. Well keep us updated.

It was pretty windy today but I continued testing loads and I have settled on 28.0grs of Accurate 5744/cci 450 primer/bullet seated to 2.320. Photos below of Day 1 results referenced above and todays results.

I did try seating the bullet at near factory COAL but as you can see the results were not optimal, so for me modifying the mags is worth it to try out the Berger Classic Hunter bullets on game.

The longer COAL required a modification to the factory magazine, I show that below as well.

DAY 1 groupings:




Day 2 groupings:

COAL 2.320 (REQUIRES MAG MODIFICATION)



COAL 2.270 (I think the jump to the lands is too great - loss of accuracy)

Any modification you make to a weapon or component should be reviewed by a qualified gunsmith. I am not a gunsmith and so I assume liability unto myself but not for others who view this thread and something goes wrong.

So I have developed a load that shoots very well however it is longer than standard magazine length.

The following series of photos illustrates a modification to the magazine to allow for 4 bullets seated at 2.320 inches to load and cycle without failure.

I will note that instead of loading 4 and loading a round and then dropping the mag to replace it to have 5 rounds total, I found it easier to load 1 round in the mag, load it and then drop the mag and load a full 4 rounds and insert into the gun.

Here are the photos