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Re: One rifle for North America
[Re: WileyCoyote]
#4695594
10/27/13 11:19 PM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 6,578
Wburke2010
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 6,578 |
I would also take a hard look at a 30-06. Hit all the pawn shops and find an old Remington 700. Over time you could upgrade it and make it a really nice gun parts at a time.
Walter
MW Ranch Services 903-303-4523 Metal buildings, welding, equipment repair, dirt work
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Re: One rifle for North America
[Re: Wburke2010]
#4695625
10/27/13 11:27 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 44,585
RKHarm24
sergeant
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sergeant
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 44,585 |
30-06 gets my vote for your specs too.
375 H&H Mag or 338 Win Mag if $$ not a problem.
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Re: One rifle for North America
[Re: WileyCoyote]
#4695857
10/28/13 12:33 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
300wm is probably the best cartridge on the planet. The $400 budget can be an issue if not going used & old.
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Re: One rifle for North America
[Re: RKHarm24]
#4695875
10/28/13 12:37 AM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,501
Nontypical3006
Veteran Tracker
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Posts: 2,501 |
I got lucky and found a Winchester model 70 in 300 win mag, synthetic stock and stainless action/bbl with a Nikon Monarch at a pawn shop a couple years ago. Gave $550 out the door, excellent shape and shoots well. If I could only keep one at the house, it would be that one (the winny 30-06 and savage 99 don't count, both were given to me by my dad and grandpa so they don't factor in to this decision......they'll never leave, haha). You can't go wrong with either the 300 or '06, I'd just keep checking pawn shops, gun shops, etc. and find the best deal on one you like. Good luck!
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Re: One rifle for North America
[Re: Nontypical3006]
#4696082
10/28/13 01:45 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,920
skeeter22
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,920 |
Nobody a fan of the .35 Whelen?
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Re: One rifle for North America
[Re: skeeter22]
#4696129
10/28/13 01:58 AM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 404
sactoller
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 404 |
Nobody a fan of the .35 Whelen? Yep, but the OP seems to know it all....
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Re: One rifle for North America
[Re: sactoller]
#4696152
10/28/13 02:05 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,129
Brother in-law
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,129 |
Nobody a fan of the .35 Whelen? Yep, but the OP seems to know it all.... Ain't that the truth considering 5 of his 6 post at this time are here and the other one reads, " I would demand a refund, and if he refused to refund and still refused to let your little girl come out then I'd skip the season and file a civil law suit. Uou been hunting there for 5 years with your little girl. He can't surprize you with a rule like that on the day you show up, with your child. That is a bunch of bull.
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Re: One rifle for North America
[Re: Brother in-law]
#4696287
10/28/13 02:43 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,682
cmorsch
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,682 |
Can a 30 cal kill dangerous game in Alaska, yes it can. But I know I would not want to test my luck doing so. I would say a 338 is the min for anything on north America. A 300 mag will do it for everything but brown and grizzly bear I think.
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Re: One rifle for North America
[Re: cmorsch]
#4696432
10/28/13 03:35 AM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 404
sactoller
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 404 |
I hear tell the 9.3's have magic powers!
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Re: One rifle for North America
[Re: WileyCoyote]
#4696489
10/28/13 03:58 AM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,919
maximum
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,919 |
hafta be a 30/06 if you have to stop in almost any little small town anywhere to pick up some ammo, you can pretty much be sure they have a box of some kind of 30/06. that can't really be said about much anything else besides 30/30 and 12 gauge shells.
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Re: One rifle for North America
[Re: sactoller]
#4696498
10/28/13 04:01 AM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 255
Regular Guy
OP
Bird Dog
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OP
Bird Dog
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 255 |
Looks like I'm making friends in a hurry on here. Seems like the consensus is that a .30-06 will have me covered for everything in North America except for grizzlies. That is fine for me, and thanks for the advice. I didn't realize grizzlies were the only game animals in Nortg America that were categorized as dangerous, I figured surely the moose would fall into that category. BTW brother in law thanks for pointing that out. Just because I have 5 posts in this forum doesn't mean I was born yesterday. As for the .35 whelen, tell me something about it. Does it have good range and knockdown power? Is it a cartridge I can realistically depend on for long shots, from ridgeline to ridgeline? Or is it a close range catridge for really big animals? Is it as versatile as a .300 win mag or an -06?
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Re: One rifle for North America
[Re: Regular Guy]
#4696635
10/28/13 08:35 AM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 527
Daven
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 527 |
I am an experienced shooter, but I've never hunted big game. Not going into the why's, all I've hunted in my life is small game with an air rifle. I have owned and shot quite a few different rifles however, and I know what to expect from them. I would like to get my first deer, and I want a rifle that will get the job done on dangerous game in Alaska with confidence. I have pretty much decided on .300 win mag based off the price of ammo, and the variety of ammo available from loads pushing nearly 4,000 fpe to managed recoil loads around 2,000 fpe. Not interested in a .338 because the cheapest stuff I've seen is about $40 for a box of 20, plus I already know some of you are gonna shake your head at the newbie that wants to hunt whitetails in Texas with a .300 win mag. The advice I'm looking for is recommendations for a solid rifle that lasts, one I can shoot for the rest of my days and pass down, that costs around $400. I appreciate it fellas
-Bryan Surprised you ain't got the "if you can't afford 40 bucks for shells or 400 for a gun, you shouldn't be huntin anyway"..... I live by the KISS philosophy... (Keep It Simple Stupid)I picked up a nice mauser 30.06 with a good scope for 120 bucks here in the land of expensive guns... Shells are walk in and pick em up and priced much better than the others you mentioned. Takes away from the luster and glimmer of hunting when you and your family are eating macaroni and cheese in order to keep up with the Jones'.... As for dangerous game, man had been killin it for a year or two before they even knew they could make a fire and cook it so a 30.06 oughtta handle things OK if you do your part. Something like "shot placement" comes to mind. As far as distances and "one ridge line to the other", why would you consider that kind of shot in the first place? Seems backstop and putting an untargeted animal or person/property in danger could be an issue...
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Re: One rifle for North America
[Re: Regular Guy]
#4696705
10/28/13 11:37 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,952
txtrophy85
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,952 |
Looks like I'm making friends in a hurry on here. Seems like the consensus is that a .30-06 will have me covered for everything in North America except for grizzlies. That is fine for me, and thanks for the advice. I didn't realize grizzlies were the only game animals in Nortg America that were categorized as dangerous, I figured surely the moose would fall into that category. BTW brother in law thanks for pointing that out. Just because I have 5 posts in this forum doesn't mean I was born yesterday. As for the .35 whelen, tell me something about it. Does it have good range and knockdown power? Is it a cartridge I can realistically depend on for long shots, from ridgeline to ridgeline? Or is it a close range catridge for really big animals? Is it as versatile as a .300 win mag or an -06? a .300 win mag is much more versatile than the .30-06. but the 06 is available in a wider range of rifles and ammo is cheaper and more available.
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: One rifle for North America
[Re: cmorsch]
#4696822
10/28/13 12:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
Can a 30 cal kill dangerous game in Alaska, yes it can. But I know I would not want to test my luck doing so. I would say a 338 is the min for anything on north America. A 300 mag will do it for everything but brown and grizzly bear I think. I would vote .300 WM every day of the week and twice on Sunday. With today's great bullet selection, I would not feel undergunned in the least hunting a brown/grizzly with one.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: One rifle for North America
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#4696824
10/28/13 12:52 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,476
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,476 |
Easy one, if you can handle the recoil 300win mag.
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Re: One rifle for North America
[Re: Regular Guy]
#4696827
10/28/13 12:53 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 21,617
pegasaurus
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 21,617 |
Looks like I'm making friends in a hurry on here. Seems like the consensus is that a .30-06 will have me covered for everything in North America except for grizzlies. That is fine for me, and thanks for the advice. I didn't realize grizzlies were the only game animals in Nortg America that were categorized as dangerous, I figured surely the moose would fall into that category. BTW brother in law thanks for pointing that out. Just because I have 5 posts in this forum doesn't mean I was born yesterday. As for the .35 whelen, tell me something about it. Does it have good range and knockdown power? Is it a cartridge I can realistically depend on for long shots, from ridgeline to ridgeline? Or is it a close range catridge for really big animals? Is it as versatile as a .300 win mag or an -06? and thank you for your service. Here is the issue folks are having with your questions. You are looking for a do all rifle that can make clean kills from ridge line to ridge line. The .300WM is a decent choice but to reliably do that with a rifle under $400 is tough. Even if you found a deal on a rifle, you still will not be able to make ethical, long range shots without good glass. There is another $400 at minimum. While you can use cheap optics for under $100, you will also be restricting your gun to 200 yards or less. Realistically, you are looking at investing $1500 to start for the setup you want. You can purchase a Stephens 30.06 and put a $50 Tasco on top for under $250 or get a Rem or Savage 30.06 & scope combo for under $400. While that would be ok for 100 yard and the occasional 200 yard shots, you would not be happy with the results for anything else. My suggestion would be to spend some time saving up some cash and keep an eye out for a good deal on a quality rifle.
Funny thing about getting older: Your eyesight starts getting weaker but your ability to see through people's BS gets much better.
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Re: One rifle for North America
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#4696867
10/28/13 01:05 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,952
txtrophy85
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,952 |
I would vote .300 WM every day of the week and twice on Sunday. With today's great bullet selection, I would not feel undergunned in the least hunting a brown/grizzly with one. what if your like me and afraid of getting mauled? I have short legs and can't cover a lot of ground fast
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: One rifle for North America
[Re: txtrophy85]
#4696869
10/28/13 01:06 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,476
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,476 |
I would vote .300 WM every day of the week and twice on Sunday. With today's great bullet selection, I would not feel undergunned in the least hunting a brown/grizzly with one. what if your like me and afraid of getting mauled? I have short legs and can't cover a lot of ground fast You are probably 2" taller then NP
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Re: One rifle for North America
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#4696938
10/28/13 01:32 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 255
Regular Guy
OP
Bird Dog
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OP
Bird Dog
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 255 |
Alright, so from the advice given so far- combined with some more internet research- here is what I've gathered: For about $400 i can get a hit-or-miss budget priced new gun, or with some patience and close scrutiny I can get a good used rifle. My chances are better if I opt for .30-06. By increasing my budget about 50% i can probably get a quality new gun. A good optic will have to wait for next year. A cheap scope will get me through temporarily, will have to determine how far out at the range. I am looking hard at some of the howa guns. Seems like about $650 is a good deal for a gun with a free floated barrel and a good synthetic stock. I am also looking at the savage hog hunters, cheap plastic stocks but close to $400 and a good rifle (savage 111) and comes with good irons. Would be forced to choose a different cartridge with the savage and probably opt for .338 win mag after all. I'd still rather shoot the .300 win mag because fom hat I've read it has a better ballistic coefficient and less drop. Plus it (savage hig hunter) only has a 20" barrell and I don't know how much power I'd be sacrificing with a barrel that short... From what I've seen on line new guns cost about the same in .30-06 or .300 winmag...
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Re: One rifle for North America
[Re: txtrophy85]
#4696947
10/28/13 01:34 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
I would vote .300 WM every day of the week and twice on Sunday. With today's great bullet selection, I would not feel undergunned in the least hunting a brown/grizzly with one. what if your like me and afraid of getting mauled? I have short legs and can't cover a lot of ground fast Just have to shoot straight, and outrun 1 person in the hunting party.
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Re: One rifle for North America
[Re: rifleman]
#4697023
10/28/13 02:03 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
I would vote .300 WM every day of the week and twice on Sunday. With today's great bullet selection, I would not feel undergunned in the least hunting a brown/grizzly with one. what if your like me and afraid of getting mauled? I have short legs and can't cover a lot of ground fast Just have to shoot straight, and outrun 1 person in the hunting party. This. If worst comes to worst shoot another member of your hunting party. .300 is plenty big for that.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: One rifle for North America
[Re: rifleman]
#4697028
10/28/13 02:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,811
TxAg
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,811 |
Since you are military, I'll assume you can handle recoil. The .300 WM is a great cartridge, but many people can not shoot it well due to the recoil. The .30-06 is nearly as good with a little less pop. After all, it's effectively the same bullet, just moving a couple hundred FPS slower. Learn your ballistics, and you can compensate just fine. You can load 180 or 200gr for the thick-skinned big game or step down to the 150gr for thin-skinned game. I personally prefer the .338 Win Mag, but it's a little much for an "everything" gun.
Whatever you get, practice with it until it becomes instinctive.
As to the rifle: Many will disagree with me, but if I just have one gun for big game, nasty conditions, and remote locations it's going to be a controlled-round feed. That means a maser-style action as in the Winchester Model 70 or the Ruger M77. Push-feed rifles are great, and I own several. But, I simply don't trust their reliability as much as my Ruger.
You won't touch a CF Model 70 for $400, but you could potentially pick up a used Ruger M77-mkII for not much more. After that, ditch your plans for the "cheap scope" and bide your time until you can afford some decent glass. Unreliable optics on a reliable gun will cause you more trouble than it's worth.
Good luck, thanks for your service, and happy hunting.
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Re: One rifle for North America
[Re: Regular Guy]
#4697182
10/28/13 02:46 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,269
GriffGruff78
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,269 |
Alright, so from the advice given so far- combined with some more internet research- here is what I've gathered: For about $400 i can get a hit-or-miss budget priced new gun, or with some patience and close scrutiny I can get a good used rifle. My chances are better if I opt for .30-06. By increasing my budget about 50% i can probably get a quality new gun. A good optic will have to wait for next year. A cheap scope will get me through temporarily, will have to determine how far out at the range. I am looking hard at some of the howa guns. Seems like about $650 is a good deal for a gun with a free floated barrel and a good synthetic stock. I am also looking at the savage hog hunters, cheap plastic stocks but close to $400 and a good rifle (savage 111) and comes with good irons. Would be forced to choose a different cartridge with the savage and probably opt for .338 win mag after all. I'd still rather shoot the .300 win mag because fom hat I've read it has a better ballistic coefficient and less drop. Plus it (savage hig hunter) only has a 20" barrell and I don't know how much power I'd be sacrificing with a barrel that short... From what I've seen on line new guns cost about the same in .30-06 or .300 winmag... You're not likely to get into a "ridgeline" rifle for $400. There is certainly a lot of value available from many different manufacturers, but if you plan to hunt at long ranges you're going to have to buy a lot of gear that the sellers are very proud of, probably including dies, presses, powders, etc. Your practical hunting range with a budget minded purchase, whether .300 mag or '06 is really going to be to about 400 yards at the max. At those distance, you don't give up much performance with the '06, but you can do it all with less recoil and less expense. A .30-06 spitting 180 grain A-frames will be adequate for Alaska-Yukon moose. You'll have to hit your mark, but you have to do that regardless of what your rifle is chambered for and even if you're toting a .378 Weatherby you're not going to break a big bull down. He'll still just hunch, look you in the eye and then pile up when his blood pressure goes to zero. He's also not likely to be farther than 200 yards and you're probably going to walk several miles in order to get that close. The outfitter's website will say ".300 magnum ABSOLUTE MINIMUM!" but that's horse hockey. Your guide will be glad to see you carrying a well-loved .30-06 because he knows that you know how to shoot it and he also knows that, with the right ammunition, it's adequate for everything in Alaska that isn't a brown bear. If there is a rifle for all of North America, I think it has to be chambered in .30-06. Except for that bit about $400, you're probably describing a Ruger 77 or a post '92 Winchester 70; I think it would be smart to work for a little while longer in order to get one. Also, if you find a Sako L61R in .30-06 for under $1,000 - BUY IT. That said, if you want to hunt Alaskan browns you will need a separate rifle and I think that the .338 winnie is about the smallest you want to go. NOTE: a .338 win mag is NOT a good all-purpose cartridge for hunters that reside in Texas at all. It's great for bear country, but not here. You would be smart to forget about that or I think we'll see it in the classifieds next season.
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Re: One rifle for North America
[Re: sactoller]
#4697290
10/28/13 03:13 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,407
WileyCoyote
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,407 |
..."9.3's magic power"... mine has that and with the limited kind of meat damage on Texas sized WT's that JB's Indian guide talked about on the 9.3 intro page of my Nosler #6 for JB's moose using 286gr NPT's..." It kills quick but doesn't shoot up any meat..." BTDT every time for me... without any Plavix heart med bruise's on Dear Old Dad here.
If I could find some Varget I'd really like to try JB's recipe in 250 gr NAB's and TSX's at 338WMg 250gr MV's, but at least I stuck back enough RL15 to feed my Privi 285's and Speer 270's which are good'nuff for WT's down here out to 350 or so with the ancient FF II's BPlex for the time being. Ron
It is TIME for Term Limits, cause Politicians are like childrens diapers and for the same reasons...Robin Williams "These are the times that try men's soul's"...Thomas Paine
"Those who fail to learn from History are doomed to repeat it" ....Santayana
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Re: One rifle for North America
[Re: WileyCoyote]
#4699245
10/29/13 01:39 AM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 85
Big Grouper
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 85 |
Something hasn't been mentioned. Ethical kill. For thin skinned animals, 30-06 good, 300 WM is at the bottom end for thick skinned animals at decent distances. The ammo you should use will be loaded with high end bullets and will cost more. You've got to have good bullets to penetrate if the shot isn't dead on.
So, yes you can find a 06 that will fit your budget, yes it will hunt in Alaska but you will have to use control and turn down some shots if they are not ideal. You said you are new to hunting animals beyond varmints so I would advise scratching the ridge to ridge requirement. The animal doesn't deserve the chance of a bad shot. Sorry, I just couldn't stay silent on this one. I just grew up, taught that way. If you can't call the shot, and can't make it, don't.
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