Here is how a parker county deputy handled a dwi, my neighbor and I have a shared drive, I go to leave one morning and their is a car blocking it. I walk up and look inside. there is a kid passed out with music blaring, he had obviuosly peed his pants. i call sherrifs department. It takes 30 minutes to get somebody out there at 10 am on a saturday morning. During this time he wakes up tries to runover me drives through the neighbors privacy gate, get trapped when the gate jams, he then tries to find a way out by driving through the yard. Her husband is not home, she is terrified. I am finally able to drag him out the open window by his head when he takes the car out of gear and pull the keys out. I hold him there until deputy finally shows up. Deputy does not cuff him or anything talks to him and is going to call his mother to come get him! Mother shows up and the duputy has the bright idea that if the mother will pay for the damage to the gate he will let everyone go home. I call back to the sherriffs department get the sargent in charge on the phone and tell him what is going on. finally he comes out and after I let him know that I will be sitting at sherriffs office on monday if something is not done then he agrees to arrest the kid. By the way the kid was so drunk they stopped and let him puke in the street on the way out. Deputy knew the family so he was just going to let him go. I believe that they ended up getting a DWI we had to show up to testify twice before it settled. No distruction of property charges and the fact that he tried to run over me was overlooked as well. Going to let the kid go!
Now the last time my wife got pulled over they took enough time to question her as to did she have anything that proved she owned the car she was driving? A. what a title B. car not reported stolen, she did not have her purse so that is her bad, she was on the way to drop the kids off at school, baby in a car seat. Wearing pajamas no less. Does that sound like a stolen vehicle? By the way we live in affuent area, a women driving a benz should not be a shocker.
Then we had our house broken into, waited an hour to get someone here to make sure their was nobody still on the house. You leo guys get all in a tizzy when someone has a complaint, Lets not forget when I was right out of college, got a job in Nac. took my wife to dinner, came home and a city cop was backed in my driveway watching people go to a frat party down the street. I asked him to move so I could get my car in the garage, he was in the driveway, he promptly cuffed me and ran me for warrants before uncuffing me and then moving his car. How would you feel, I was a 22 year old kid and didn't know what to do about it. It would be different today. Yeah I got no need for cops.

1. If they work for you because you pay taxes, they work for themselves, as well.

2. They have no constituency. Neither are elected officials.
3. Is your chosen diety failing you, lost his compass and abandoned his "constituency" because bad things happen?

There are miscreants and law breakers among us. I don't like them but they're there. I do the best I can to protect my family, myself and my belongings but I have been victimized and am sure it will happen again. I understand the rage when something is taken. However, guns in a truck and stuff left in the woods are risky propositions. In fact, leaving guns unattended in the truck is an irresponsible act that feeds the antis. Thanks for your service but would you leave your issued gun unattended?

So once again it gets said by somebody being defensive about LE.

What I hear is that:

* We'd better hide our stuff, because if it gets stolen don't come bothering us in LE with it.

* LE doesn't work for us. LE isn't elected or in any way chosen by the population to work for us.

* There are lots of bad people out there, so just deal with it, but don't call us and expect more than lip service and reports written.

So...somebody please explain to me clearly and in detail what a LE Officer thinks his or her job duties really are. Obviously I've been very confused on that issue, thinking that Protect and Serve meant something more than just a catchy saying. Protect who? Serve who?

Lets hear what you think they should do?

Is this a bad time for a donut joke?

It is obviously one of those things that us non-leo people just wont be able to understand. I had my tools stolen from my truck here at my house and the officer could care less (much like you guys are saying) but a few months later the neighboring county caught the pot smoking scumbags during a marijuana (spelling?) growing warrant. But I can understand why they feel like it's pointless to try and find the items, theres a millions people around here how could they ever find them? It's just be a freak accident if they do. Then you have the defense system thats on the bad guys side, officers have to keep things so freaking clean and inline it's just nuts. (I have a really good example but this isnt the place for it). So what does pay for the officers salaries, building, cars, gear, etc.? It's the fines! They dont make any money from playing cops & robbers, hence the polics they speak of.

Well sir, you seem to be the resident expert. You offer a lot of criticism based on your MP experience. I'd like to know what it is that the police are supposed to do to recover your stolen property. I'm all ears.

Do you even have the foggiest idea what happens once a theft report is filed?

I'll enlighten you a wee bit.
1) *IF* the victim is able to provide any serial numbers (which is not often) then we immediately enter the items into TCIC/NCIC. That's a nationwide database of wanted persons, items, vehicles etc. It's cross-referenced with LEADS-On-Line which is a registry of every pawn transaction conducted at every participating pawn shop across the country. So if we have a serial number and if the crook is dumb enough to pawn the item then there's a good chance we'll recover it. Otherwise, we'll probably just have to stumble on the item out pure dumb luck. From time to time we're able to put a case together, run a search warrant and normally recover a lot of stolen items. Sometimes we get lucky on narcotics search warrants and recover lots of fenced stolen items.

Criminals do operate within any rules. LE must operate within many rules. I'm sure you've heard of the Bill of Rights. It's one of many. Then there's laws, policies, and the biggie...Case Law. That's decisions handed down by the Supreme Court and it's ever changing.

Add in obstacles like the decriminalization of drug laws or Burglary of Vehicle. Most crime labs are strapped and under funded. The most used crime lab is the DPS lab. It won't accept or analyze evidence (fingerprints, DNA, ballistics, etc) unless the crime was a felony. Burg of a Vehicle was made a Class A Misdemeanor a number of years ago. We don't fingerprint burglarized cars anymore for that reason. We submitted fingerprints only to have them rejected.

The OP is PO'd that he caught an image of a guy on horseback. The man's ID is now known. He blames LE for not arresting the man and assumes that the man is also responsible for the ensuing thefts. He may be, but without one shred of evidence you can't prove crap. When it comes to arresting people, it's not what you know, it's what you can prove.

Most DA's will accept a Criminal Trespass charge until the person has been given a written warning, known as a Criminal Trespass Warning (CTW), first. Yet, you, the OP and several others have been quick to jump on LE and attribute their unwillingness or laziness as the reason.

The OP's heater was stolen out of the deer stand. I'm going to bet that the OP didn't have serial number, so how are the police possibly expected to identify the one that was his. I'm betting I've one or two just like it in my garage. I'm betting that there's tens of thousands just like it within a 100 mile radius. So, Mr. Expert, how is LE supposed to recover his stolen heater.

I can assure that a judge is not going to issue a search warrant for the guy's house that rode his horse through the property based solely on that instance. You have to have Probable Cause, and from what I've read here there simply isn't any.

So again, I'm all ears. Let's hear your solutions. I tell my subordinates that I don't want to hear their bitches unless they offer a solution to accompany it. I'm asking you the same thing.

Oh, and in case you're wondering, I've had my truck broke into at my house. Never did catch the bad guys and never recovered the nice Kershaw knife that they stole. Didn't get my Eagle Greatest Hits CD back either. Chaps my butt too.

That would probably be looked at as more of a civil matter than criminal. Your insurance would go after them.

So...you are going to lump all police under what a single deputy did? How general can you get. By the way...charging him with the damage, a civil potion of the incident, would have given the possibility for a plea to a lesser charge. Of course I don't expect you to understand how that works, try talking to one of the attorneys that makes a living circumventing the system for money. I addition, the deputy does not HAVE to cuff him. The arrest was put in place. By the way...a traffic stop is technically an arrest as the freedom of movement is ceased. Are you cuffed? I think not. In many states you required to carry and produce you vehicle registration, so that covers what you wife might have experienced. Did they accuse her of stealing the vehicle or are you assuming that was the case? Be careful.
Maybe it's time you moved to a place with NO rights. Or maybe you should take a minute and think about the rights you have compared to other countries. No need for a cop...then don't call one. No feelings would be hurt. Your life must really suck with all this hatred.

Did you say something like "excuse me officer may I have access to my garage?"



Just kidding with you.


Most officers I've known would love to catch a thief. They get stuff stolen as well. However most of the time the stuff and thief are long gone so there is nothing else to do other than take a report. Also depending on the county and jail space, petty theft may just get a slap on the hand. Frustrating for the police.

All I hear from the Pro-LE guys is that they can't do (for various reasons) what we, the civilians, think they should be doing. The disconnect here is huge, and it brings discontent. As for what we would like them to do is simple - find our stuff. But they can't or won't find our stuff, and they can't keep our stuff from being stolen (since that appears to be our fault anyway, since we made it readily accessible to the bad guys).

There has been a long list of complaints in this thread about how folks have felt shortchanged by LE. Part of that appears to be due to our mistaken assumption that LE works for the general populace and that they should actually work in support of the general populace. Simply put, we aren't getting what we think we should be getting. If you aren't finding our stuff, what exactly is it that you are doing? And yes, if the boss says to write speeding tickets all day, then I guess that's what you are doing. But...this brings up the question that I've always wanted to ask a cop. Do you feel right about doing what you're doing with the tickets? Are you making the world a better place? Did you ever give a ticket to a family member? How about another police officer? The mayor's kid?

Anyway, TurkeyHunter has kind of defused me with his comment. The problem probably lies with the system and not the LEO individually. It would greatly ease the frustration of civilians if the LEO would simply say that "I've got your information and I'll pass it along, but chances of recovery are slim". Otherwise, we are going to expect something good to happen.

And LandPirate, I'm not basing anything I said on my MP experience. Back then I was young and tough and they gave me some training and a gun and cuffs and a nightstick and I was John Wayne immediately. I did quickly learn that MP's, like cops, have few friends. It's a mostly thankless existence that led many of us to be hardnosed and mean to the very people we were supposed to be helping. I did learn that. And I most certainly recognized that very same meanness in many of the cops I've had to deal with over the years. A cop isn't one of the bad guys, but neither is he fully welcomed by the good guys (civilians), so they live in cop world with other cops, where there are people that understand you.

You can spew all the excuses you want for cops doing dumb stuff that is nothing new. Every time a leo act like an idiot all the others get all worked up in his defense. Life is pretty good and while some wont say alot of people get the deal.

603 country, there is a reason good guys dont fully welcome cops.

603,

You make a lot of assumptions and you miss a lot of my points. First, I seldom socialize with other cops. It always leads to talking shop. I spend enough time at work. When I'm not there, I prefer not to talk about it. One of the reasons I come here. It's one of the reasons I used to frequent the TFF but the constant cop bashing over there was wretched, so I stopped going there altogether. There seems to be more appreciation over here.

The part you miss is that we (cops) have rules that we must play by. The bad guys have no rules. We're already a step behind them.

I spend the majority of my days at work patrolling neighborhoods. I keep up with local trends and I target those areas with saturated patrols. Even still, I only catch a couple of burglars/thieves per year. The rest are caught through an investigative process. I won't bore you with the details. Suffice to say we catch a fair number of them. We recover a fair amount of stolen property. Even still, it's only a small fraction of the total of stolen property.

Again, I'm still struggling to hear what it is that you think we should do to improve this. We cannot be everywhere. Our numbers are limited. The criminals are everywhere. They strike when opportunity arises. They are crafty and do everything they can to not be caught.

You act as if you (a citizen) has no responsibility in fighting crime. You act as if we live in a perfect world where crime shouldn't exist. You act as if you ought to be able to leave a $100 bill on a park bench and then expect it to still be there the next day.

I've got news for you, we do not live in that world. You have to take some precautions to avoid being a victim. Anything less is purely foolish. The thought of anything else is ignorant and naive.

You do not know me. You do not know what I've done or accomplished in my 24 years of LE. I doubt that you personally know any LEOs. You certainly do not know the system that we must work within.

Honestly, you sound like one of the sheep. I don't mean that in a demeaning way. You expect to waltz through the green fields of glory with no dangers from the wolves. In a perfect world that would be true. But we do not live in that world.

You as a citizen have many responsibilities. Read up on those responsibilities as written by this country's founding fathers.

When was the last time you spoke with your county commissioner or city councilman about funding for public safety? When was the last time you actually went to a jury summons and didn't try to get out of it? When was the last time you bothered to find out what platform the local candidates stand for in a local election? When was the last time you asked for a meeting with the DA and expressed your displeasure with their plea bargain policies?

I'm betting you, like 90% (or more) of other citizens don't make much of stand to drive government the direction you want it. Go talk to the police chief or sheriff and ask them what you can do to help sway the politicians to give us the tools we need to better serve you. Get involved.

Or not. It might just be easier to not understand, not care and just bitch about the cops and what they don't do. Heck, start by going to the local citizen's academy.

There are communities across the country with lousy LE. There are also lots of communities with top notch LE. And just like in deer hunting, we can't be expected to kill a booner every time we go out. It's unrealistic. By the same token it's unrealistic to expect cops to stop every crime committed or solve every crime committed. It's just plain foolish.

LandPirate, I get your points and I truly understand what you are saying and why. And the rules you follow can be restrictive, and I understand that as well. As for what should be done to make this a better place, given the limitations that LE has with men and equipment, I don't know. I respectfully suggest that you guys should know what's best to do. And...if what LE is doing is the best that they can do with what they have, then citizen be warned. As I've aged, I've taken many precautions to avoid being a victim, and so far I've been successful. There have been instances where I've been wronged, with no successful outcome and I'm basing my frustration on those instances and those of my country neighbors. I'm trying hard to think of one instance where you might could say that justice was done, but time and time again...justice was not done. You want me to be understanding of the LE situation and problems, but based on what I've seen and experienced, the only thing that ever got done was insurance claims. As a citizen, I'm not impressed.

And yes, I do know and have known LE individuals over the years. One of them is a very good friend. I've never discussed all of these things with him, since he is long retired and I don't want to sour the relationship.

And I don't go out of my way to bash cops, but I did feel like throwing in my 2 cents on this discussion.

My background is in Corporate America, where failure is not an option. If you can't get the job done, they'll find someone who can. I really am used to getting from people what I paid them to provide. When I see what I consider to be an underperforming service group (and that's exactly what the cops are to me), I'm not happy. So...If I take that attitude down to the small town police station and give it to the sheriff, where do we go from there? As a rule, cops don't like to be told they are wrong and don't like to be told what to do (as in "I've got the badge, so I'm in charge here?). Either I'll need to run for mayor or get elected as sheriff, or nothing is going to change.

I do wish I had an easy answer to what civilians think is a problem and what LE considers to be just another day at the office.

I am not LE.

Yes. It is a reasonable expectation that a responsible citizen not leave guns in a truck.

You do pay taxes for a police force, teachers, city managers, highways, bridges, the president's salary etc. But you don't own the highways, bridges or public servants.

If that were the case, PETA members own the deer and can, therefore, regulate hunting. The protestors outside the local gunshop pay taxes. Are you ready for them to get thier way? They pay ATF salaries just as much as you do. Don't we owe it to them to grant their wish to take your guns?

As far as corporate America goes, people don't get fired because they can't get the job done anymore than they do in the public sector. There are incompetent, corupt individuals everywhere. I'm unhappy with subprime loans, outsourcing and waste in general. I do not, however, despise all people who work in the private sector.

In Pinochet's Chile, Stalin's Soviet Union and Escobar's Medellin there was very little property crime because all people were afraid of the totalitarian states which controled the movement of all citizens (no matter how holy they may have considered themselves. Would you like to go that route?

Asartor, let me get this right, your position is that the complaints in this thread, which include people wanting Leo to focus more on crime less on ticket writing, return calls, and be half way serious about the concerns of people who have been violated in some way is a march towards some kind of totalitarian regime? Is that what you think? Put down the mre, get out of the end of the world shelter and get some sun shine, you will feel better.

I don't know what community you live in. But I'd suggest that if you're not happy with the current administration then do something about it. Sometimes, in smaller communities, the officers lack training. Admin lacks training. Many of them lack experience. Good ol' boys are elected as Sheriff or appointed as Police Chief.

I don't know what to tell you about your unrealistic expectation that LE prevent all crime and when it does occur LE solves it through investigation, after the fact. That's just ridiculous.

The national average for crime clearance rates is less than 20%.

I assure you if I wanted to turn to a life of crime I could do it for a long time without being caught. I could probably make a lot more money than I do now. But I never wanted to work in an office, never wanted to dig ditches and was too scared to steal.

LE cannot stand guard over everyone's personal property 24/7. That's why it's up to you, the citizen, to take some reasonable precautions. Lock up your stuff. Install a security system. A video surveillance system too. Record your serial numbers and insurance.

To expect LE to prevent and solve every crime while the citizens do nothing toward their own benefit is completely irresponsible, unrealistic and relies too heavily on government.

Perhaps a socialist or communist government would be more to your liking. In Hitler's Germany neighbors were recruited to spy and tattle on each other so that nothing slipped past the government.

We could do a much better job of solving crime if we weren't cumbered by people's rights. Heck, I could kick in doors, search cars with wild abandon, shake people down. You get the idea.

I haven't seen around the forum until recently. I guess you missed the thread where a man's rifle was stolen out of his truck. Some other member saw an ad for the rifle on a firearms board. A sting involving multiple agencies was conducted. The rifle was recovered and the bad guy jailed.

LE is a lot more effective than you give credit for. With that said, I can defend LE until the cows come home. I'm not going to change your mind. You need to figure out what you can do to make a difference in your community if the problem is as bad as you say. I can't do that for you.

I wish you luck but I'm done trying to explain it. You need to find some of your answers. But like I said previously, don't bitch if you can't offer a solution. If you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem.

I'm saying that you are unrealistic in your belief that every crime may be avoided and/or solved without creating a police state in which no one has any rights. Do you want your LP ran everytime you pull out of your driveway? How about a tracking device?
The issue is not doomsday on my part. Its about people thinking that they should get what they want when they want.

Note the post above about the ineptness of every LEO in the world because a crime was not investigated to his liking and then in the same post being mad because someone was investigated. The only difference was that the latter instance was his wife.

You can't have it both ways. Either allow and condone an overly invasive government or understand that not every crime will be solved.

My issue is that there has been generalized disdain for all LEOs based on a limited amount of personal anecdotes.

There have been a number of cases in this state in which mothers have taken the lives of their own children? Do you now hold disdain for all mothers? I would think not.

Sorry LandPirate you tipped your hand. Special laws or applications for those who disagree with you? I understand that there are professional law enforcement officers that sincerely believe that they are making the world a better place and I agree that they are. I also am fully cognizant that there are some officers that would work for free if they could carry a pair of chrome plated pistols AKA George Patton. To defend the "blue line" unequivocally is not only wrong it is not very smart. The bottom line is that LE does not "protect and serve" the general public, nor have they ever. Their first loyalty is to "protect and serve" the government and nothing else gets close.

Asartor, not one civilian soul on this long argument has yet suggested that there was any way to completely or even partially prevent crime, and nobody expects all crimes to be solved. The whole point of this was: Stuff got stolen and LE did nothing other than take a report. That indifference to our problems bothers us just a tiny bit. I personally think I'd feel a little better if they called and lied to me and said they'd at least try to do something for me. That's a long way from the police state you seem to think that some of us are calling for.

I'm even sorry we had this discussion. Now that I know the true level of indifference that LE has to solution of minor/major theft, that destroys the thin belief I once had that they at least cared a little bit.

Hide your stuff, boys. We are on our own.

I dont like bashing LEO's but what you wrote has happened twice that I personally can swear to. 1 was my truck and tools and the other was when my buddies house got broke into, the officers said "Well, were not going to try finger printing because we will never catch them anyways". That does make one feel dissappointed with our justice system.

But anyways, I still respect you guys for risking your lives to help keep ours safer!

It really is sad that the only time most of us encounter LEO's is when they are writing you an aggravating speeding or traffic ticket and usually on a desolate highway. Any time you intentionally go looking for an LEO for help is when you are victimized and seldom is there any positive results. I kind of gave up on the idea that calling the police was going to bring positive results, chit when I lived in Alaska the only way to get a cop to show up at your property in the case of theft was to call 911 and mention the word GUN, or GUNSHOT or SHOTS FIRED, if you said any of those words you would at least see a Trooper within 20-30 minutes. If you didn't mention those 3 phrases you would NOT see a Trooper at all. You just kind of learn to deal with stuff on your own and be thankful for living in states that still offer the right to the citizen to protect him or herself and his or her property without excessive prejudice.

Maybe we're expecting LEO's to be superhuman.
It only takes one bad experience with LE to totally ruin some peoples image of many good men. I'm guilty of that one.

Respect for all of you in LE, but the frustration some of us feel just wont go away.