texashuntingforum.com logo
Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
TraeMartin, Beatixre, MooseSteed, Trappernewt, casyoo
71987 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
dogcatcher 110,788
bill oxner 91,416
SnakeWrangler 65,416
stxranchman 60,296
Gravytrain 46,950
RKHarm24 44,585
rifleman 44,461
Stub 43,769
Forum Statistics
Forums46
Topics537,022
Posts9,719,496
Members86,987
Most Online25,604
Feb 12th, 2024
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
195 Berger Hybrid 7mm #5850458 07/27/15 07:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,442
kmon11 Online Shocked OP
junior
OP Online Shocked
junior
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,442
Saw on another site the 7mm 195gr Berger Hybrids are in the works. Numbers that are from their testing look pretty good but you will need a faster than standard twist for them


Quote:
195g Berger hybrid .284 caliber
Some have been made and are being tested. Quantities have not been shipped for distribution yet. We're close, within weeks.

Measured Performance:
G1 BC = 0.755 (Average from 3000 to 1500 fps)
G7 BC = 0.387 (Valid for all speeds)


lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true
Mainstream news might be fun to watch
Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm [Re: kmon11] #5850479 07/27/15 07:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,836
H
Hunter-Steve Offline
Pro Tracker
Offline
Pro Tracker
H
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,836
let us know if you get them and how they perform.

Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm [Re: kmon11] #5850495 07/27/15 07:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,442
kmon11 Online Shocked OP
junior
OP Online Shocked
junior
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,442
I will not be trying them since I do not own a 7mm with a fast enough twist and not rebarreling another rifle just to shoot a longer bullet.

But there are some on this site that have the rifle ready for these when they are available.

One thing I do like the hybrids are much less critical about seating depth than the VLDs


lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true
Mainstream news might be fun to watch
Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm [Re: kmon11] #5850598 07/27/15 09:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 14,768
jeh7mmmag Online Happy
gramps
Online Happy
gramps
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 14,768
1-9.5 is common. What twist are required? My guess for 195 you would need at least 1-8


�Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in,
where nature may heal and give strength to body and soul.�
~ John Muir
Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm [Re: kmon11] #5850611 07/27/15 09:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,442
kmon11 Online Shocked OP
junior
OP Online Shocked
junior
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,442
One barrel maker has calculated at least 1:8.4 and is recommending 1:8.2 or 1:8


lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true
Mainstream news might be fun to watch
Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm [Re: kmon11] #5850700 07/27/15 09:59 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
D
dee Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
D
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
1:8 or faster would be ideal.


Last I heard was that these were going to be under a new extra long range lineup.


"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm [Re: kmon11] #5850738 07/27/15 10:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,907
C
ChadTRG42 Online Happy
THF Celebrity
Online Happy
THF Celebrity
C
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,907
With the data I have on the bullet length, I'm showing a 1:8.2" twist is minimum, so an 8" twist would be great. I just ordered 4 barrels from Bartlein for inventory and 3000 of these bullets from Berger.

If you run this bullet about 2800-2900 fps or more, this would be the slickest bullet on the market for highest BC. I'm looking into what parent case to push it with. I'm leaning towards a 7mm/300 Win Mag, since I have plenty of brass and dies already. A 7mm Dakota would also be good, but requires all new dies and brass. Something in the 70-80 grains of powder is good. The 7 RUM and 28 Nosler would be too over bore and have too little barrel life, IMO.


[Linked Image]
Custom and Precision Ammunition!!
https://DallasReloads.com/
Type 01 and Type 06 FFL
Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm [Re: kmon11] #5851407 07/28/15 11:02 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
D
dee Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
D
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
7-300 is a great and often forgot about option. I bet it will get you pretty close to your goal velocity.


"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm [Re: dee] #5851532 07/28/15 01:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
J.G. Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
I can't rememver if my 7 Rem Mag is a 1:8" or 1:8.4". I plan to try these, and really hope they run on a compressed load of Retumbo as does the 180's I'm currently running. The 180's are making 3040 fps MV, so I should be able to get north of 2900 fps with the 195's.

My biggest problem getting to know them at distance will be holding too much wind correction. These are just not going to get drifted very much, even in a 10 mph cross. My 6.5 Creedmoor for instance is .8 Mil correction at 500 yards in 10 mph wind. I suspect the 7mm 195's will literally be half that. I reserve the 7 Rem Mag for elk and mule deer. The week long mule deer lease I have been invited to for the second year in a row is country that long shots are not only a possibility, but probable. Of course I want the shot as close as I can get it, but I go prepared for a long shot. These 195's are going to hit like a sledge hammer!


[Linked Image]
800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm [Re: kmon11] #5851662 07/28/15 02:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,165
J
Judd Online Confused
#1 Creedmoor Fan
Online Confused
#1 Creedmoor Fan
J
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,165
A lot of the guys shooting the TexasBenchrest.com (400y shooting mini clays 2.25") are going to the 7mm's...specifically 284/284 Shehane/7 Walker. I've been holding out because I don't shoot every one of their matches but after getting spanked in the May match by the 7mm's and 300's it is making me think I need a big gun. If I was getting I'd end up with a 7 Walker, I don't want anything with Shehane's name on it and I think the improved 284 is where it's at.

Biggest problem is I hate recoil...but this new bullet has me scratching my chin. I've been waiting for my shooting buddy to get his 284 improved (it's a Shehane but he didn't want his name on his stuff either haha) so I could shoot it to see if it's worth the recoil. Now I'm really thinking....


Originally Posted by Phil Robertson
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm [Re: Judd] #5851685 07/28/15 02:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
D
dee Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
D
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
Originally Posted By: Judd
A lot of the guys shooting the TexasBenchrest.com (400y shooting mini clays 2.25") are going to the 7mm's...specifically 284/284 Shehane/7 Walker. I've been holding out because I don't shoot every one of their matches but after getting spanked in the May match by the 7mm's and 300's it is making me think I need a big gun. If I was getting I'd end up with a 7 Walker, I don't want anything with Shehane's name on it and I think the improved 284 is where it's at.

Biggest problem is I hate recoil...but this new bullet has me scratching my chin. I've been waiting for my shooting buddy to get his 284 improved (it's a Shehane but he didn't want his name on his stuff either haha) so I could shoot it to see if it's worth the recoil. Now I'm really thinking....


Brake?

Why not a saum or wsm on a long action.

Last edited by dee; 07/28/15 02:46 PM.

"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm [Re: kmon11] #5851711 07/28/15 03:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,165
J
Judd Online Confused
#1 Creedmoor Fan
Online Confused
#1 Creedmoor Fan
J
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,165
Yes on brake....I'm still a kitty when it comes to recoil. I've shot enough shotguns to know what a flinch is and it's not worth it (one of the few reasons I all but quit shooting sporting clays/5 stand, I've got one and I was always the guy shooting light 7/8 to 1oz loads).

I think a 7wsm would be awesome....but brass for either of those are almost non-existant and you can get good Lapua 6.5-284 brass and Bullets.com has a deal with Nosler (I believe) to make good 284 brass and they are getting pretty regularly.


Originally Posted by Phil Robertson
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm [Re: kmon11] #5851716 07/28/15 03:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,835
5
5 Stand Dan Offline
Pro Tracker
Offline
Pro Tracker
5
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,835
I found a good article on a 7mm/300 Win Mag wildcat, called the 7mm Practical. Looks very interesting to me, easy to form the brass and better barrel life than the overbored magnums. It appears to be very efficient with the amount of powdered burned. I bet it would get that 195 moving downrange at a good clip.

Link->7mm Practical


[Linked Image]
Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm [Re: kmon11] #5851746 07/28/15 03:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481
R
redchevy Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
R
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481
How does a 7mm 300 win mag not classify as an overbore magnum?


It's hell eatin em live
Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm [Re: redchevy] #5851764 07/28/15 03:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,835
5
5 Stand Dan Offline
Pro Tracker
Offline
Pro Tracker
5
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,835
Originally Posted By: redchevy
How does a 7mm 300 win mag not classify as an overbore magnum?


In my opinion it's not, but it is getting close. Cartridges like the 7mm STW or 7mm RUM use a much bigger case and don't get that much more out of it.


[Linked Image]
Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm [Re: Judd] #5851771 07/28/15 03:32 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
D
dee Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
D
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
Originally Posted By: Judd
Yes on brake....I'm still a kitty when it comes to recoil. I've shot enough shotguns to know what a flinch is and it's not worth it (one of the few reasons I all but quit shooting sporting clays/5 stand, I've got one and I was always the guy shooting light 7/8 to 1oz loads).

I think a 7wsm would be awesome....but brass for either of those are almost non-existant and you can get good Lapua 6.5-284 brass and Bullets.com has a deal with Nosler (I believe) to make good 284 brass and they are getting pretty regularly.


There are rumors that G.A.P. is in the works with someone who is going to produce saum brass but it will likely be a 6.5 headstamp. Another option is using 270wsm brass as it seems a bit more available.


"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm [Re: redchevy] #5851854 07/28/15 04:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,907
C
ChadTRG42 Online Happy
THF Celebrity
Online Happy
THF Celebrity
C
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,907
Originally Posted By: redchevy
How does a 7mm 300 win mag not classify as an overbore magnum?


You are right. It is getting close. But... Compared to a 7 RUM or 28 Nosler, it's not. I want something in the 75 to 80 grains of powder for the 195's. Anything more or bigger, and it gets too big and overbore. The STW would be a decent case, but I don't want something that long. You can run into magazine issues with a bullet like this. The 300 WM as a parent case would be an easy transition for me. I already have all the Redding bushing dies for the 300 WM. All I would need is a neck bushing to size the necks down to 7mm, and be GTG. Plus, fitting the round into a long action would be easy with any 300 WM rifle and magazine system.


[Linked Image]
Custom and Precision Ammunition!!
https://DallasReloads.com/
Type 01 and Type 06 FFL
Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm [Re: dee] #5851856 07/28/15 04:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,907
C
ChadTRG42 Online Happy
THF Celebrity
Online Happy
THF Celebrity
C
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,907
Originally Posted By: dee
Originally Posted By: Judd
Yes on brake....I'm still a kitty when it comes to recoil. I've shot enough shotguns to know what a flinch is and it's not worth it (one of the few reasons I all but quit shooting sporting clays/5 stand, I've got one and I was always the guy shooting light 7/8 to 1oz loads).

I think a 7wsm would be awesome....but brass for either of those are almost non-existant and you can get good Lapua 6.5-284 brass and Bullets.com has a deal with Nosler (I believe) to make good 284 brass and they are getting pretty regularly.


There are rumors that G.A.P. is in the works with someone who is going to produce saum brass but it will likely be a 6.5 headstamp. Another option is using 270wsm brass as it seems a bit more available.


I spoke to George with GAP at the Heatstroke match, and he said Hornady will be producing his 6.5 SAUM head stamped brass. Should be coming out soon.


[Linked Image]
Custom and Precision Ammunition!!
https://DallasReloads.com/
Type 01 and Type 06 FFL
Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm [Re: Judd] #5851870 07/28/15 04:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
J.G. Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
Quit being a pu**ie Judd.


[Linked Image]
800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm [Re: kmon11] #5851888 07/28/15 04:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,165
J
Judd Online Confused
#1 Creedmoor Fan
Online Confused
#1 Creedmoor Fan
J
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,165
In my experience, the Hornady brass is real soft and the primer pockets won't hold on hot loads....at least not like Lapua or Win brass. In the practical games, you might not get more than a couple firings anyway and it won't matter....I don't know.

I've never been a fan of the saum's...I've read the F-class guys (600-1000y) have all but given up on the 6.5saum...it is to finicky to get tuned and stay tuned to their level of accuracy. George was arguing with them on accurate shooter a couple weeks ago.

The 7saum has proven to be an accurate round...I just like the 284 improved and 7wsm better.


Originally Posted by Phil Robertson
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm [Re: kmon11] #5851899 07/28/15 04:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,165
J
Judd Online Confused
#1 Creedmoor Fan
Online Confused
#1 Creedmoor Fan
J
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,165
HAHAHAHA Garvey....especially considering I'm talking 22lb+ guns rofl


Originally Posted by Phil Robertson
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm [Re: Judd] #5851992 07/28/15 05:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
J.G. Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
Exactly. It aint like I'm asking you to shoot the bigguns off a barricade.


[Linked Image]
800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm [Re: kmon11] #5852527 07/28/15 11:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 33,799
B
Buzzsaw Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
B
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 33,799
Ya'll hurry up and figure it out so I can order another 7mmWSM


SPACE FOR RENT


Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm [Re: kmon11] #5852531 07/28/15 11:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 33,799
B
Buzzsaw Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
B
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 33,799
Judd, its interesting talking about shooting the clays. I started with a GAP .308, got spanked by the Duke Brothers and their crew shooting the 6.5X.284's and up. So I sold my .308 and had The 7mmWSM built . I did much better with it with the 180gr Bergers...and 7828ssc'''


Still got my booty spanked by the Duke crew...


SPACE FOR RENT


Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm [Re: Buzzsaw] #5853294 07/29/15 02:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,165
J
Judd Online Confused
#1 Creedmoor Fan
Online Confused
#1 Creedmoor Fan
J
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,165
Originally Posted By: Buzzsaw
Judd, its interesting talking about shooting the clays. I started with a GAP .308, got spanked by the Duke Brothers and their crew shooting the 6.5X.284's and up. So I sold my .308 and had The 7mmWSM built . I did much better with it with the 180gr Bergers...and 7828ssc'''


Still got my booty spanked by the Duke crew...


In North Texas we don't have enough 400y matches for me to have built a gun specific for that yardage. I also haven't practiced a lot at that range...I've had my share of Duke whippings and I suspect I'll take a few more. I love the 400y game, it's by far my favorite. I like the strategy of the small/med/large clays. I shoot 6br improved (6brx/6 dasher) which is plenty accurate to be competitive (I've won one 250y Spanish Fort match and won the 200y Denton Cty match this season) if it isn't super busy and the wind isn't blowing 20mph. If the wind is blowing the big guns will eat my lunch...the more it blows the more I'll get beat.

August is a busy clay month...8/2 @ Spanish Fort (250y mini clays), 8/9 @ Denton Cty (shoot 3/4" or 7/8" poker chips @ 200y) and 8/16 @ HOTSA in Coolidge (400y Midi & small clays).


Originally Posted by Phil Robertson
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

© 2004-2024 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3